SIGNING SHANE VICTORINO A MISTAKE - 美國職棒

Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2012-12-06T21:42

Table of Contents

http://tinyurl.com/cw38non

SIGNING SHANE VICTORINO A MISTAKE FOR RED SOX
by KIRK MINIHANE

Just because we live in a world where Shane Victorino can make $39 million
over three years doesn't mean it's OK to pay Shane Victorino $39 million over
three years.

Victorino拿的到39M/3yrs的約 不等於紅襪該跟他簽這個約

Maybe there is a long-term plan -- maybe this paves the way for trading
Jacoby Ellsbury for legitimate starting pitching (which, let us not forget,
is all that really matters) -- but as an individual baseball decision the
addition of Victorino at that price is a mistake, plain and simple.

或許這為紅襪開啟了交易Ellsbury換SP的機會

但單就棒球觀點 這筆約是個錯誤

Of the 144 major league players with enough plate appearances to qualify for
the batting title last season, Victorino ranked 116th in OPS and 121st in
slugging (that would be one spot ahead of Mike Aviles). I know we have been
told not to care about batting average anymore, but for those of you
dinosaurs who pay attention to that charming but antiquated statistic should
note that Victorino hit a career-worst .255 in 2012, 20 points below his
career average.

上季在打席數足夠的球員裡 Victorino的OPS僅排名116 SLG排名121(Aviles的前一名)

或許AVG不再是唯一重要的數據 但上一季他只打出生涯最差的.255

比生涯平均低了百分之2(生涯.275)

So for the second time in as many days it appears Ben Cherington -- with many
if not most of the local media only too happy to help with positive spin --
has overpaid for a player coming off of a lousy season. Isn't it supposed to
be the other way? Understanding there has been shifts and guys almost always
get paid more than they should, it still strikes me that Victorino should
come closer to a buy-low candidate than an clear and obvious overpay.

對我而言 Victorino應該是個逢低買進的標的 而不是overpay的對象

And it really shouldn't matter that the Cleveland Indians had already offered
Victorino $44 million over four years, as has been reported. Not a factor. If
that's an actual option for Victorino, you let him go to Cleveland and find
someone else.

就算笑臉人真的開了44M/4yrs的約 也不能改變39M/3yrs是overpay的

應該讓Victorino去CLE

I get the Napoli signing, I really do. I think it's too much money for a
player who has played 113 and 108 games the last two seasons (still would
like to know why Texas -- we all agree a pretty solid baseball organization,
right? -- declined on the $13.3 qualifying offer to Napoli while the Sox were
happy to triple it in both years and money) and is coming off of a 2012 line
of .227/.343/.812, but I recognize the upside.

我認同該簽Napoli 不過太貴了 前兩季他只分別出賽了113跟108場

TEX會連13.3M的qualifying offer都不給 不是沒有原因的

而我們在他低潮年後 給了他三倍的合約(雖然我也可以理解是出於他的upside)

Victorino is a platoon player. This is not written to be hyperbolic, to get a
rise, it is a statistical reality. And you'd think for $13 million a year you
would at least get a platoon player who excels against right-handed pitching.
That's not Victorino.

Victorino只是個platoon球員 這不是誇張的說法

就算要給一個platoon球員一年13M 也該給個擅長打右投的(面對右投手的機會較多)

In 2012 Victorino had a .229/.296./.333 line against righties. Now, to be
fair, that came in the worst season of his major league career (it's true --
Victorino landed a $39 million deal after posting the worst OBP, slugging and
batting average of his career, and we aren't exactly dealing with past
numbers that will be confused with Miguel Cabrera's). So let's go just a year
back to 2011. Victorino had a fine season, finishing with a slugging
percentage of .491 and an OPS of .847. Guess what? He was still just a little
better than average against righties -- slugged .455 with an OPS of .787 --
but destroyed lefties, an OPS of 1.032.

上個球季Victorino打右投只有.229/.296./.333

就算考慮到這三項數據都是他的生涯最低 有機會反彈

他表現很好的11年打右投也只有略高於平均的.787 OPS(打左投則是1.032)

For his career Victorino has 2.979 plate appearances against right-handed
pitching as a left-handed batter and his OPS is .732. In his last three
seasons -- which, again, includes 2011, maybe the best of his career -- he
has a .387 slugging percentage in 1,231 at-bats as a left-handed hitter (for
some frame of reference, Darnell McDonald has a career .394 slugging
percentage.) Victorino's struggles as a left-handed hitter were so profound
last season that at the end of the year the switch-hitter began to hit
right-handed against right-handed pitching. To some that might be a red flag,
for the Red Sox it's evidently still another reason to go above market value.

Victorino生涯2979個PA裡 用左打面對右投只有.732的OPS

過去三個球季 用左打面對右投也只有.387的SLG 麥當勞的.394都比他高

也導致他在上賽季的最後 被迫用右打來面對右投手

這對紅襪來說應該是一個警訊

And those other moves may happen this week. At some point Cherington will
have to get around to finding some reliable starting pitching. And I'm not
talking 38-year-old R.A. Dickey for the two best prospects in the
organization, but someone who fits in the middle of the rotation and is under
some club control contractually. Not an easy find, but an essential one. We
can talk all day about chicken and beer and Bobby Valentine and chemistry and
how much John Henry enables the players and all that stuff, but the Red Sox
were the best team in baseball in August 2011 and have been 30 games below
.500 since because of the starting pitching. If Cherington doesn't solve
that, Napoli and Victorino are meaningless.

這禮拜可能還會有些動作 Cherington必須找幾個可靠的SP

我不會拿兩個最好的新秀去換38歲的Dickey 但可以便宜用幾年的中段輪值倒是可考慮

8BV、啤酒炸雞都是原因,但紅襪從11年8月前全聯盟最好的球隊變成低於五成30場,

SP的無力絕對是最主要的問題 不解決這點 簽了Napoli跟Victorino也一樣

It's very early, but the returns on the Era of Discipline have been David
Ross, David Ortiz, Mike Napoli and Shane Victorino for about 110 million
bucks. Not a disaster, but is anyone really overwhelmed by that haul?

回到重視紀律的年代後 簽下David Ross、老爹、拿胖、Victorino不是不好,

但這些人還不足以撥亂反正

And Victorino is easily the worst of the four deals. American League batters
had a .731 OPS last season. Victorino has a career .732 OPS against
right-handed pitching. For roughly three-quarters of his at-bats Victorino is
by definition an average hitter. And for that he will be paid $13 million for
each of the next three seasons.

而Victorino的約是上面四筆裡面最糟的 生涯對右投只有.732的OPS

換言之 四分之三的打席他都只是個平均水準的打者

而他接下來三個球季都要領走13M

That may not qualify as undisciplined, but it's the worst move Ben Cherington
has made in his tenure as general manager of the Red Sox.

這可能是Cherington接手後最糟的一個動作

---

這篇是WEEI另一個專欄作者寫的 可以跟前一篇對照正反觀點

大家討論看看~

--

All Comments

Jacob avatar
By Jacob
at 2012-12-11T21:07
其實當初簽夏威夷人讓人挺傻眼的
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2012-12-13T12:08
希望能反彈阿~~~ 不要成為尻佛第二就好了
Olga avatar
By Olga
at 2012-12-15T14:05
尻佛那可是又臭又長 很難比 XD
Carolina Franco avatar
By Carolina Franco
at 2012-12-18T23:45
其實Ellsbury生涯打左投也才.762 當然右投手比較多
生涯OPS+ Ells 106 夏威夷人102
Hardy avatar
By Hardy
at 2012-12-21T13:36
Ellsbury FA之後可能拿到6-7年 總額100M以上
Emily avatar
By Emily
at 2012-12-24T03:02
當然FA的年紀不同 不過個人不覺得這筆有嚴重overpay
Madame avatar
By Madame
at 2012-12-24T19:20
其實沒那麼嚴重 因為這筆約也不長 其實要造成傷害的話
也很有限
William avatar
By William
at 2012-12-27T02:58
市場上已經沒有CP值更高的選擇了 看看BJ Upton的約
Swisher也不可能用三年約簽到
Frederica avatar
By Frederica
at 2012-12-31T07:40
燒哥當然也不可能
Regina avatar
By Regina
at 2013-01-03T00:25
三年就算再不好 也勉強可以接受 檯面上也沒好貨
Ida avatar
By Ida
at 2013-01-06T12:07
夏威夷人現在還看不太出來,不過拿波里這投資不差
Leila avatar
By Leila
at 2013-01-07T13:38
不過今年OF好像也不多,沒什麼選擇的樣子(大家都搶很兇)
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2013-01-10T23:51
我覺得這篇根本是在鬼扯...根本沒那麼多人給你選
我也覺得簽這筆有點意外 但沒他說的那麼不堪
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2013-01-13T08:05
就沒人能簽啊......難道要簽Bourn嗎 這個一定更貴
Daniel avatar
By Daniel
at 2013-01-14T14:30
更顆顆的是夾克筆 襪迷姑且不論 對於其他隊球迷而言 他只
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2013-01-16T20:33
是個有一年爆發的腿哥 生涯平均109 但只有兩季過百
Franklin avatar
By Franklin
at 2013-01-18T06:00
拿掉11年 其實Ellsbury和那些腿哥沒差多少啊
打擊可能稍微好一點啦 但是其實也只有好那麼一點
Joe avatar
By Joe
at 2013-01-18T08:01
其中一季爆發 另外一個根本小樣本 也就是說扣掉爆發
他大概只是個90左右的 然後搞不好要跟你要15M+
Mia avatar
By Mia
at 2013-01-19T04:47
跳出襪迷的角度 以一個對他不熟的他隊球迷來說
Frederic avatar
By Frederic
at 2013-01-19T13:17
我還真的不知道他哪裡比Victorino好到可以拿比他多
Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2013-01-22T00:11
這篇的說法偏激過了頭
Kristin avatar
By Kristin
at 2013-01-26T12:22
Victorino的約我也覺得簽得不漂亮,但還不至於到爛約
Skylar DavisLinda avatar
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2013-01-29T08:32
他沒有那麼差,正常發揮下也不會只是個一般等級球員
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2013-02-02T12:08
講白了 簽Victor就是拿一個簽比較短不會卡錢的夾克筆來用
Gary avatar
By Gary
at 2013-02-05T04:35
這個move本身可以理解 價錢的話當然是overpay
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2013-02-05T05:51
不過現在FA不overpay能簽得到嗎? Pagan的那個約我們
也簽不到 在市場上能守CF的人中也沒幾個了
Ivy avatar
By Ivy
at 2013-02-07T02:53
拿今年被討論的很夯的WAR來講好了,近三年3.8 5.9 3.3
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2013-02-09T00:22
其實不管怎麼看,他是個還不差但還不到All Star等級
Necoo avatar
By Necoo
at 2013-02-12T13:18
這個約的問題只在於,該是逢低買進的,卻用正常水準約簽
Olive avatar
By Olive
at 2013-02-13T08:25
我怎麼有種只要是超過一年,每年超過10M的約,不管簽的是
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2013-02-16T19:53
跟夾克筆差不多啦 簡單說就是這樣 人家也是爆過一年
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2013-02-20T17:36
Napoli TEX沒簽的主因在於球隊建隊方向的問題
並不是代表他不值這個價,BOS是可以給他足夠打席的
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2013-02-23T02:03
誰~都會有人跳出來說「哈!這是爛約!」的錯覺~
Eden avatar
By Eden
at 2013-02-27T05:48
8年前這個價格能簽到吹哥 5年前再加碼一點就簽到Drew
Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2013-03-03T10:45
roverchi說的沒錯啊XD
Dora avatar
By Dora
at 2013-03-04T18:29
吹哥待我們家的時候一年也只拿8M
只能說 因為現在綁大魚的風氣越來越盛 市場上越來越難
看到大物 所以堪用的FA都會被喊很高
Kumar avatar
By Kumar
at 2013-03-08T21:54
如果最後替代小帥哥站CF 這個約到底爛到哪裡了@@?
Elvira avatar
By Elvira
at 2013-03-10T04:52
這是邏輯問題 如果現在紅襪是差臨門一腳 那這約不錯
Victoria avatar
By Victoria
at 2013-03-14T15:27
就是沒有很賺 各取所需啊 要說簽太貴也不至於吧
當然別人有買比我們家便宜的 不過也不代表我們很盤子
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2013-03-16T19:24
但如果要重建 等於40M丟到水里 不多是沒錯 但總還是浪費
Ida avatar
By Ida
at 2013-03-18T07:05
東浪費一點 西浪費一點 等真的要梭哈的時候沒籌碼就窘了
George avatar
By George
at 2013-03-20T15:34
我覺得 是不是差臨門一腳 這要看接下來的動作而定
Elma avatar
By Elma
at 2013-03-23T07:45
水裡? 有那麼不堪?
Jessica avatar
By Jessica
at 2013-03-24T13:03
其實我覺得根本只是拉不下臉來砍掉重練啦
Hamiltion avatar
By Hamiltion
at 2013-03-28T10:32
當然如果以砍掉重練的角度來看 Victorino根本沒必要
就讓Ellsbury站一年看狀況 不值得留就放他走
2014~15剛好讓JBJ上來
Rosalind avatar
By Rosalind
at 2013-04-02T01:34
預算許可的情況之下 多屯一點貨增加彈性 沒什麼問題
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2013-04-06T19:03
現在payroll到底多少 沒人知道 Cherington說是機密
如果如某些人說的上看豪華稅門檻(189M) 顯然沒要重建
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2013-04-06T20:23
Youkilis 去基基了...............Sad....
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2013-04-11T19:53
說真的 我願意看James Loney站1B Nava站LF Sweeney去RF
Aaliyah avatar
By Aaliyah
at 2013-04-14T06:38
確定了嗎?
Ina avatar
By Ina
at 2013-04-15T04:08
然後來個紅襪史上第一隻狀元 但老闆肯嗎XD 別的球迷肯嗎
Bethany avatar
By Bethany
at 2013-04-16T03:38
丟到水裡... 尻佛那約才是真正的丟到水裡吧
James avatar
By James
at 2013-04-18T06:32
那當然也不會如abc說的 要梭哈時沒籌碼
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2013-04-20T14:54
從簽了Victorino後 還是繼續有傳言要補人
Isla avatar
By Isla
at 2013-04-21T10:57
市場交易就是這樣,紅襪是不可能全砍掉rebuild的
還要顧一下球迷,總要給球迷個進場的理由
Joseph avatar
By Joseph
at 2013-04-23T17:37
看起來目前120M左右 距離預算上限 還有一段不小空間
James avatar
By James
at 2013-04-27T06:55
而且這個約的重要性在於他可以守CF,給了很高的靈活度
Yedda avatar
By Yedda
at 2013-04-29T07:22
明年是否要交易Ells就有空間了,算是可以理解的行為
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2013-05-02T05:36
明年開打以後交易的意義就不大了吧@@"
Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2013-05-04T16:54
其實如果NYY用12M簽到Youk...我反而會覺得也無所謂
Lucy avatar
By Lucy
at 2013-05-05T22:34
他們1B和3B站的是誰?還是花12M買DH嗎?我不懂NYY追Youk
有甚麼好理由.....
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2013-05-07T03:40
1B鐵爺 3B屁股痛的A-Rod Chavez走了 勢必補個三壘
Suhail Hany avatar
By Suhail Hany
at 2013-05-08T22:32
阿不就 A-Rod 開季不能打 不過好像簽不到了 lol
Zenobia avatar
By Zenobia
at 2013-05-09T01:05
希望光頭不要去NYY 去笑臉人啦..
Barb Cronin avatar
By Barb Cronin
at 2013-05-11T16:26
當初他們會攔A-Rod也是因為原本的3B季後報銷~
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2013-05-13T16:28
剛去NYY板才看到這個消息=.="....
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2013-05-17T11:13
不過也同樣代表他們另外27.5M丟進水裡了...
Harry avatar
By Harry
at 2013-05-21T20:58
NYY追Youk哪需要什麼好理由 因為市場上也沒人可追了啊
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2013-05-24T20:03
開瓶哥 Chavez都被簽走了 Drew不願意platoon三游
Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2013-05-27T07:24
abc有先看過襪版不需要在總版戰這麼大
Puput avatar
By Puput
at 2013-05-31T06:04
Victorino的約有點overpay,不過不算很大
Emily avatar
By Emily
at 2013-06-01T12:31
小帥哥感覺真的被高估了一些
Delia avatar
By Delia
at 2013-06-04T21:03
我覺得VIC差不多7.8百萬還OK 一千三有點超過
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2013-06-05T05:16
Pagan 10M都算便宜了 近況差但名氣較響亮的Victorino
要拿比這個價低很難

Rumors & Anthony Carter

Ula avatar
By Ula
at 2012-12-06T02:25
1. http://t.co/isS7ECdk 紅襪對Stephan Drew有興趣 雖然之前綠帽拒絕撿$10M的option,不過綠帽還是對Stephan Drew有興趣 另外的一大對手是游擊和三壘都受傷的洋基 2. http://t.co/NLr8GOKf 簽下Anth ...

Rumors & Minor Moves

Andrew avatar
By Andrew
at 2012-12-05T02:44
https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/276020036999729152 Red Sox didnand#39;t like what they saw on Dan Harenand#39;s medicals on his hip. 不喜歡Haren屁屁的醫療 ...

Brandon McCarthy

Rae avatar
By Rae
at 2012-12-04T23:02
推 piggreat:今年最大的問題就是SP了~~怎麼都沒看到這類新聞QQand#34;~ 12/04 22:46 https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/275975789852381184 San Francisco Chronicle reports the R ...

簽下Mike Napoli對市場的影響力

Jacky avatar
By Jacky
at 2012-12-04T22:04
HOT STOVE: HOW MIKE NAPOLI IMPACTS RED SOX CATCHING MARKET http://0rz.tw/XjkW1 Mike Napoli was signed to serve primarily as a first baseman. Still, his a ...

Sox Talking To Swisher & WhiteSox

Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2012-12-04T02:20
Red Sox Talking To Swisher, Out On LaRoche http://t.co/0VwYHJF6 Agreeing to sign Mike Napoli doesnand#39;t take the Red Sox out of the running for Nick S ...