棒子爺 VS 普侯斯 - 美國職棒

Victoria avatar
By Victoria
at 2011-10-25T09:23

Table of Contents

※ 引述《s2678132 (LONG)》之銘言:
: 我記得我看過一篇文章
: 說吃禁藥能增加打者2%的XXX(因為有點久了,忘記那XXX是什麼能力...)
: 然後經過計算,那2%就能造就單季選手多轟個10幾20發的HR
: EX:沒禁藥30發,禁藥吃下去50
: 不過我不確定這文章是不是豪小的,而且也找不到那篇文章了
: 有人也有看過這篇文章嗎?

Roger Tobin的估計
http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/Tobin_AJP_Jan08.pdf

There is considerable variation among the models, but the salient point is
that a 4% increase in ball speed, which can reasonably be expected from steroid
use, can increase home run production by anywhere from 50 to 100%.


吃藥對幹泡能力的提升可能比大多球迷想像的還要多

不過也別忘了,不是只有打者吃藥,投手也會吃
(被Bonds幹破紀錄轟的那位就是吃藥還被抓)

By the same mechanical analysis, a 10% increase in muscle mass should increase
the speed of a thrown ball by about 5%, or 4–5 mph for a pitcher with a
90 mph fastball. Although there is far more to pitching than speed, (just as
there is far more to hitting than bat speed) there is a significant correlation
between average fastball speed and earned run average (ERA), with an increase
of 4–5 mph translating to a reduction in ERA of about 0.5 runs/game.

--

All Comments

Anthony avatar
By Anthony
at 2011-10-30T01:52
所以應該分成禁藥組和非禁藥組
Heather avatar
By Heather
at 2011-11-03T19:25
禁藥聯盟?
Anonymous avatar
By Anonymous
at 2011-11-04T06:04
Burns的經典紀錄片Baseball好像說過 吃藥可把球多打十幾尺
Edwina avatar
By Edwina
at 2011-11-08T14:09
這十幾尺可能是FO和HR的差別
Eden avatar
By Eden
at 2011-11-13T00:46
我比較相信是本來打得好的吃藥會更好,打不好的幫助也不大
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2011-11-15T18:57
90年代整個大聯盟吃藥的球員超過50%,表現好的也就那些
Gilbert avatar
By Gilbert
at 2011-11-19T17:05
之前有人提到禁藥對維持身體強度有幫助,這應該才是主因
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2011-11-23T18:58
要說禁藥能提升50%到100%的HR,我覺得這真的是在豪洨
Erin avatar
By Erin
at 2011-11-27T22:00
吃藥Power變強,球可以跟的更進來,可以幫助選球,增加打
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2011-11-28T04:38
擊率 吃禁藥可以環環相扣 它影響技術層面很高
Ursula avatar
By Ursula
at 2011-12-01T00:49
球可以跟的更進來 相對打變化球也會比較能適應
Eartha avatar
By Eartha
at 2011-12-04T05:18
但是投手也吃了很多禁藥,相對也比較威猛啊~
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2011-12-08T14:26
鄉民喜愛的盲砲們哪個不是揮棒速度快power強?
請問他們的選球好嗎?打擊率高嗎?
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2011-12-12T01:50
是阿 可是也不能否認打擊者能力會變強阿
Ophelia avatar
By Ophelia
at 2011-12-15T02:14
打擊是很複雜的一件事,吃藥不一定會讓你打得比較好
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2011-12-15T17:13
吃藥頂多讓你比較容易恢復,或者容易建立肌力
Gilbert avatar
By Gilbert
at 2011-12-15T19:21
有些人是犧牲選球能力來增加擊及力道的 不可一概而論
Zenobia avatar
By Zenobia
at 2011-12-20T12:06
吃藥可以能力變強 但沒實力的吃藥影響有限
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2011-12-23T00:49
犧牲選球能力來增加擊球力道?!你是杜福明第二嗎XD
Tristan Cohan avatar
By Tristan Cohan
at 2011-12-24T10:45
頂尖打者都是全力揮擊的,降速求碰碰是只在中職出現的奇蹟
James avatar
By James
at 2011-12-26T22:42
有些人真的是揮大棒求全壘打 犧牲一點打擊率跟選球阿
Rosalind avatar
By Rosalind
at 2011-12-27T13:14
如果你要說的是不管三七二十一揮了再說,那就是盲砲無誤
Genevieve avatar
By Genevieve
at 2011-12-28T11:21
只有少數人可以兼顧全壘打跟打擊率和選球
Olivia avatar
By Olivia
at 2011-12-30T23:09
盲棒也是他們打擊型態的一種阿
Edward Lewis avatar
By Edward Lewis
at 2012-01-04T08:23
請問哪個盲砲因為吃藥提升了打擊率或選球?
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2012-01-05T09:28
= ="犧牲選球能力增加力道 那叫盲炮 只要打不出HR
Frederic avatar
By Frederic
at 2012-01-09T13:22
整個成績就沒啥可看好嗎
Ina avatar
By Ina
at 2012-01-13T15:26
5566你自己說吃藥可以跟球跟得更進來 又說是要犧牲
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2012-01-16T09:23
當然不是整個犧牲阿 為了長打球一投出就要判斷要不要
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2012-01-18T08:28
選球能力來打長打 完全就不同東西
那個還是算在選球能力......好球帶的辨識也是一項
William avatar
By William
at 2012-01-20T12:13
揮了 選球能力會稍微下降
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2012-01-24T21:56
我是說吃藥跟沒吃藥的差別= =
Mason avatar
By Mason
at 2012-01-27T12:50
這樣的形態最好就是Dunn avg低 obp,slg都高
Edith avatar
By Edith
at 2012-01-30T16:12
對阿 我可沒說"完全"放棄選球能力= =
Thomas avatar
By Thomas
at 2012-02-04T12:40
有那麼厲害那你要不要從小就吃阿~那台灣不就一堆巨砲
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2012-02-09T03:52
所以沒吃藥前也是一樣要在球一投出就要判斷要不要揮
Steve avatar
By Steve
at 2012-02-09T23:33
5566你說的那種藥叫做"眼藥" 一般來說還沒到實用階段
Margaret avatar
By Margaret
at 2012-02-13T09:40
重點是台灣球員底子不夠 吃藥影響也是有限..
Enid avatar
By Enid
at 2012-02-16T20:30
就算吃藥能增加力道 若沒好的辨識觀念
有沒有吃根本就沒差的~~~~
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2012-02-19T13:10
我就是說沒吃藥前阿= = 吃藥後可以稍微跟進來一點
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2012-02-24T09:22
5566你說的已經像是能讓一個盲炮吃了藥就會多選球了欸
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2012-02-26T21:19
若原本對好球帶控制就不理想的選手 最好吃了藥
眼睛就會看得清楚(笑)
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2012-02-27T07:27
因為力道比較強 連帶影響辨識能力
當然完全不選球的吃了也沒用...
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2012-02-28T06:18
想看滿壘被IBB的影片
Harry avatar
By Harry
at 2012-03-01T21:04
5566你一開始說吃了藥就可以把球跟進來提升選球
Kama avatar
By Kama
at 2012-03-02T15:19
現在又說不選球的吃了也沒用,到底是哪個啊?
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2012-03-05T16:28
他的假設只成立在"會選球"的長打好手
可是事實上有服用過的根本就不只有那些XD
Sierra Rose avatar
By Sierra Rose
at 2012-03-10T01:05
是可以間接提升選球 可以盲砲吃了也不選的吃了也沒用
Irma avatar
By Irma
at 2012-03-10T08:40
難道其他人是吃身體健康的嗎XDDD
Victoria avatar
By Victoria
at 2012-03-11T19:51
是阿 如果吃了藥還是沒改變打擊型態也沒用阿
Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2012-03-15T06:51
那"其他人種"又幹嘛要吃藥
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2012-03-19T11:14
那些人可能只想把球打得更遠而已吧XD
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2012-03-21T20:44
早知道應該叫 Ty Cobb 吃藥的,就會比 Babe 還偉大
Eden avatar
By Eden
at 2012-03-26T13:48
5566應該去大聯盟指導才對 因為吃藥的用途他還更了解
George avatar
By George
at 2012-03-27T11:49
很多東西都是環環相扣的 如果只是增加力道而已 誰想要
Blanche avatar
By Blanche
at 2012-03-29T21:13
冒著風險吃
因為它間接會影響到很多層面的提升
Catherine avatar
By Catherine
at 2012-04-01T16:35
當然前提是要有一定實力
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2012-04-04T20:45
恩 也對 你一定更了解誰有實力誰沒有
George avatar
By George
at 2012-04-08T02:35
我相信有些是以為吃了可以變Bonds,就傻傻的去吃
結果廣告不實,也沒辦法告消保官
Anonymous avatar
By Anonymous
at 2012-04-10T10:13
如果可以增加20%的能力 原本的底子爛提升有限
Olga avatar
By Olga
at 2012-04-11T16:03
但吃藥的強棒實力就要打八折來看 像是Bonds..
Ina avatar
By Ina
at 2012-04-13T09:15
5566我已經不知道要回你什麼了,全部都是你自己的幻想...
Anthony avatar
By Anthony
at 2012-04-18T03:16
哪裡幻想= =
Lydia avatar
By Lydia
at 2012-04-21T14:55
為什麼是20%不是2%或200%?
Anthony avatar
By Anthony
at 2012-04-24T08:04
我是說假如而已 只是要說明程度不佳的人提升的也較少
Michael avatar
By Michael
at 2012-04-25T12:43
增加力道就差很多了阿!
Kyle avatar
By Kyle
at 2012-04-25T16:34
所以我才說為什麼不是2%或200% 如果是2%那根本沒有影
Blanche avatar
By Blanche
at 2012-04-27T00:45
響 如果是200%那還不飛天了? 為何一定是20%上下呢
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2012-05-01T05:18
你要我假設2%或200%也是可以阿...
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2012-05-02T07:09
只是假設20%看起來比較合理一點而已
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2012-05-02T14:03
噗疵
Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2012-05-03T15:45
所以就真的是幻想
Tracy avatar
By Tracy
at 2012-05-04T13:36
真實的數據原文裡就有說了..並不是完全沒有根據
Kyle avatar
By Kyle
at 2012-05-07T04:26
原文說吃藥可以增加10%肌力 90賣投手可以增加5賣速度
George avatar
By George
at 2012-05-08T10:39
5mile??有這麼誇張=口=
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2012-05-09T15:44
5566在胡說八道些什麼
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2012-05-12T03:41
原文沒說吃藥可以增加10%肌耐力... 是說10%肌耐=5%球速
Ursula avatar
By Ursula
at 2012-05-15T10:52
5566真的厲害 趴數都算的出來
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2012-05-17T07:07
真利害的腦補..
Jacob avatar
By Jacob
at 2012-05-21T03:31
90麥可以加5,這是吃了加速藥吧
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2012-05-25T05:23
吃藥是比較不會低潮吧
Yedda avatar
By Yedda
at 2012-05-28T04:12
5566得第一
John avatar
By John
at 2012-05-30T21:36
這系列文怎麼一堆人搶著被打臉XDD
Mason avatar
By Mason
at 2012-05-31T10:06
吃禁藥會讓聯盟M型化 投打都更容易有誇張數據 那些沒吃
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2012-06-05T07:43
的就哭哭了
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2012-06-08T00:20
不是只有打者吃藥,投手也會吃 <<< 但是不是所有投手都
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2012-06-10T16:16
吃, 所以*打者還是容易洗數據
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2012-06-14T14:01
投手用藥也該被鞭啊 這沒啥疑問
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2012-06-18T20:31
重點不在聯盟怎麼規定 而是球迷預期看到的是真刀真槍的真男
James avatar
By James
at 2012-06-23T11:18
人對決 而不是加料的比賽 事實上也沒啥人會用「大家都在用
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2012-06-25T16:18
聯盟也沒禁」來為自己用藥抗辯 而幾乎都是扭扭捏捏地閃躲
Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2012-06-26T20:58
你可以由此推斷出大多數美國球迷對此的看法 本板似乎有很多
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2012-06-27T11:46
預期球員本來就有用藥的人(還是單純支持用藥球員?) 所以不
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2012-06-30T03:33
在乎這些 大家立場差那麼多 當然不會有共識
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2012-07-04T05:13
總之用藥與否會讓條件相當的球員立足點不平等 這沒有疑問
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2012-07-08T15:25
瘋了 拿個棒子爺上來就引來一推把禁藥炒到爛的蒼蠅zzz
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2012-07-09T04:59
從推文可知百分之90的人根本搞不清楚何謂"禁藥"
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2012-07-14T03:46
吃藥還能增加球速??我看到差點沒笑死
James avatar
By James
at 2012-07-15T07:46
事實上吃藥效果如何根本無法估計,你根本沒辦法設計一
Selena avatar
By Selena
at 2012-07-15T15:09
套實驗來印證,這些統計沒有實際醫學理論基礎只是瞎談
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2012-07-17T20:16
我相信鄉民吃禁藥去打大魯閣也是會變強的:)

棒子爺 VS 普侯斯

Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2011-10-25T06:05
推 lingjj:長打能力和保送次數當然是正相關 你有威力投手自然投得閃10/25 04:12 是相關但是是反過來了,必然有不錯的選球能力才能對於設定的球路做有效的攻擊。 空有POWER沒有選球投手就怕你嘛?這樣的話那麼簽UNDERTAKER吧。 → lingjj:禁藥能讓A級打者變成S級打者沒啥 ...

Jamie Moyer Comeback?

Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2011-10-25T05:59
原文網址: http://ppt.cc/347M 他知道,很多人會笑他別傻了。 跟以前一樣,他歡迎這些嘲笑。 and#34; 總會有些批評者,不過打從我開始投球他們就在了。and#34; 這位前費城人在電話中這樣說。 and#34; 我不會讓這些影響我,即使有,我也會讓他變成正面影響。and#34; 在 ...

棒子爺 VS 普侯斯

Frederic avatar
By Frederic
at 2011-10-25T00:15
※ 引述《checktime (華哥)》之銘言: : 兩位近代超強打者比一比 邦茲 VS 普侯斯 : 1.禁藥部分 : 普侯斯樂勝 : 2.生涯前四年 : 普侯斯樂勝 : 前四年OPS Bonds .746 .821 .859 .777 : Pujols 1.0 ...

TODAY

Agnes avatar
By Agnes
at 2011-10-24T22:27
┌──────────────────────┬─────┐ │ 一 二 三 四 五 六 七 八 九│R H E│ 系列 ├────┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┼─┬─┬─┤ │ 紅雀 │0│0│0│0│0│0│0│0│0│0│2│0│  2   ├────┼─┼ ...

Re: Is Pujols the greatest hitter of all time?

Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2011-10-24T21:40
※ 引述《abc12812 ()》之銘言: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/17960/ is-pujols-the-greatest-hitter-of-all-time 我問了我的同事 Jim Caple 一個很簡單的問題:「你覺得大聯盟史上最 ...