真他X的不爽!!!!
一直拿一些贏MJ但大家都不注重的數據來襯托我皇,
然後墊一句"雖然如此, 我還是覺得MJ比較偉大" 就想塞住人嘴巴.
感覺就像是有人一腳重過一腳往MJ海報上踩,
另一邊卻雙手合十向LBJ的海報膜拜.
踩踏完畢還丟下一句 "MJ,你還是比較強的" ,
這樣MJ迷會忍得下去嗎?!!!
※ 引述《kart (=\)》之銘言：
: 真是夠了！嘲笑LeBron在總冠的戰績只有2-4真的是一個
: 最蠢的立論了，而這也是酸民們最新最潮的酸法來捍衛MJ神聖的
: 傳奇成就。
: Why is 2-4 so misleading?
: 為啥2-4誤導很大？
: Let's count the reasons.
: 我數著數，至少有下列原因。
: 1. Six straight Finals is basically unheard of
: 第一，連續六年進總冠基本上已經接近前無古人。
要比較得過6次NBA Titles, 6次Finals MVP的男人,
卻拿連續進決賽的紀錄來說嘴是哪招? 就算你連續15年進Finals, 最後只拿3冠3MVP,
成就就是差人一截.
NBA就是個Winners take all的圈子, 要不然, 今年的73勝勇士哪會被酸這麼慘?
: Another common barb thrown at James' record is that he's always
: gotten an easy road to the Finals. One pretty big reason for that:
: Of the nine 60-win teams from the East since James entered the
: league, James has been on three of them. Also, the last two 60-win
: East teams James faced in the playoffs? He beat both.
: 另外一個常見的酸點是說LeBron躲東區，進總冠容易啦。
: 但是別忘了一個很重要的原因是，在LBJ進入聯盟以來東區的9隻
: 60w球隊裡面，LeBron自己就佔了3隻。而最近兩隻東區的60w球隊，
: LeBron也都打敗了他們
戰東區強隊的戰績勝率高只能證明LBJ的球隊在東區獨霸, 跟東區強弱何關?
照這種戰強隊的邏輯, 不如我們用更高的標準來檢視MJ.
以65w以上的強隊對戰來檢視公牛大家說如何?
對決65w球隊, MJ是1敗0勝 (生涯第二年第一輪對決大鳥).
(不知LBJ生涯第二年的季後賽戰績如何?)
先別高興太早, MJ整個職業生涯只產生過5次65w以上的強隊,
其中3次就是公牛自己本身!!!!
MJ: "要證明能夠打贏超級強隊, 老子還在苦尋機會啦!"
: The stat you don't often hear is that James has reached the Finals
: in seven of his 11 postseasons, which is astounding to think
: about. At just 31 years old, James has already reached the
: championship round more times than Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone,
: George Gervin, Alex English, Bob Lanier, Dan Issel, Charles
: Barkley, Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, Steve Nash and Yao
: Ming ... combined. Yes, combined.
: 是的，你不會聽到人們提到LeBron 11進季後賽裡，有
: 七次能打總冠，當你試著去想這項成就時，你會感到很了不起。
: LeBron現在31歲，而他進冠軍賽的次數已經超過下面這些名人堂
: 球員加起來還多了：
: 大O，摩斯馬龍，冰人，Alex English, Bob Lanier, Dan Issel,
: 老巴, 神米，Wilkins, 奈許和姚明。
: 是的，全部加起來！
以LBJ這種要競爭歷史前10球星的身價, 需要拉這批人來救援嗎?
前幾天不是有人說LBJ的比肩目標應該是魔術?
魔術13年進過9次Finals, 但是好像不大有人會拿這當魔術的成就.
提到魔術, 大家都會想到3MVP, 3FMVP, 5冠, 助攻王, 三雙王,
: 2. Michael Jordan "failed" earlier
: 第二，老喬早年也曾經「失敗」過
: Critics of James will point to 2-4 as both an indictment on his
: career and a nod of praise to Michael Jordan and his sterling 6-0
: record. By slighting James, it props up Jordan's legacy as the G.
: O. A. T. (Greatest of All-Time).
: 那些用總冠戰績2-4來批評LeBron的人總是不忘提起
: 老喬6-0的總冠"神蹟"。好像把LeBron說得弱一點，就更能
: 捍衛老喬是史上最強球員的地位了一樣。
: But a fact that's rarely brought up is that James has missed the
: Finals just four times in his postseason career. By comparison,
: Jordan reached the Finals in just six of his 13 postseasons.
: Framing it another way, James is 7-4 in getting to the
: championship round while Jordan was 6-7.
: 但是事實上，這些人都選擇忽略LeBron 11次季後賽裡
: 就打了7次總冠，而用這個標準來看，老喬 13次季後賽裡面，
: 竟然「只」進了總冠六次，所以這樣看來，LBJ反而以7-4領先MJ的6-7。
: What a loser that Jordan guy was! Missed the Finals more times
: than he made it!
: 哇，那個叫喬丹的傢伙真是遜啊！竟然進不了總冠的次數
: 比進去的次數還多ㄟ！
再說一次, Winners take all.
要用進總決賽的次數來談成就,
Elgin Baylor 跟Logo 人肯定是飛天遁地了,
Magic 和賈霸也應該依次來挑戰MJ歷史第一人的地位.
: After all, James has never lost in the first round of the playoffs
: either (something Jordan suffered three times). And James has
: never been swept in the first round either (something Jordan
: endured twice).
: 畢竟，LBJ在季後賽還沒有一輪游過，而老喬生涯前三年
: 的季後賽戰績可是1-9，一輪游了整整三年。包含兩次被橫掃呢。
LBJ沒一輪游過只是因為前兩年連第一輪都沒辦法打,
不要自己畫靶自己放靶自己射箭.
: Looking at the Finals, Jordan didn't ever have to face a 65-win
: team, while James has faced two in the last two seasons alone.
: Furthermore, Jordan enjoyed homecourt advantage in five of his six
: appearances, a luxury that James has only had in two of his six
: Finals trips, underscoring that James has overachieved in getting
: to the Finals with subpar rosters.
: 再回頭來看看總冠吧，老喬從來沒有在總冠遇到65w以上的球隊，
: 而LeBron過去兩年已經遇到兩次。更有甚者，老喬在冠軍賽六次
: 裡面享有五次主場優勢。而LBJ七次裡面只有兩次。
: 這代表LeBron其實在己隊實力略遜的情況下依然能帶隊進冠軍賽
: 並不容易。
如前所述, 公牛自己本身就是3次65w球隊,
其他兩隻65w各出現在他的生涯第二(負)第三年(沒遇到),
就算MJ裝弱也不保證其他隊能超過65w讓他有機會證明自己打得贏65w呀!
:
: And yet, people scream and shout that James is a championship
: bust.
: 儘管如此，酸民們依然會大吼大叫著說LBJ就是個亞軍咖
: 3. Championship-or-bust mentality is lunacy
: 第三，不奪冠就失敗的心態是一種變態。
: Yes, winning the championship is the ultimate team goal. But it is
: not the only goal and it certainly isn't the most important
: individual achievement. Winning the MVP, for instance, is far more
: reflective of a player's accomplishments than touting a
: championship-or-bust stat that is so dependent on supporting cast,
: coaching and plain ol' good luck.
: 是的，冠軍是任何一支球隊所要爭取的終極目標。
: 但是並不是唯一的一個目標，而且它並不是最重要的「個人成就」。
: 事實上，贏得MVP代表的個人成就遠比冠軍要高。畢竟冠軍的成分
: 總是和球隊如何息息相關，教練和一些運氣成分在裡面。
再3提醒, NBA是Winners Take All.
你不是robert horry, 你不是steve kerr, 你是LBJ, 要歷史成就爬得更高,
請多拿冠軍, 多拿Finals MVP.
:
: By the way, while we're talking about individual achievements,
: have you seen who leads the all-time leaderboard for win shares in
: the postseason?
: 對了，我們現在講到了個人成就，你有去看看現在
: 史上季後賽win shares最高的球員是誰嗎？
: That would be James, who just passed MJ last week. James has
: accumulated 40.1 playoff win shares while Jordan generated 39.8
: with his play, according to Basketball-Reference.com's all-in-one
: metric.
: 那傢伙叫做LeBron James，他在上禮拜剛剛超越了老喬，
: 成為季後賽史上WS最高的球員。
: Playoff win shares
: Win Shares
: LeBron James 40.1
: Michael Jordan 39.8
: Tim Duncan 37.8
: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 35.6
: Magic Johnson 32.6
Win Shares是職涯累積數據, 不如比平均數據如何? WS/48 LBJ是多少? 有贏MJ嗎?
: This is all not to say James is better than Jordan. That is not a
: discussion we're having today, not when James is 31 years old and
: likely just a little past the halfway point in his career.
: 當然，我說了那麼多，並不是在說LeBron比老喬棒。
: 這並不是我們今天所要討論的，並不是在LeBron還只有31歲，
: 並且還在巔峰的後半段的時候。
我說了這麼多, 也不是想證明Lebron有很爛,
畢竟拿了3冠3FMVP, 把它排進歷史前10也是很合情合理.
但是作者先生, 你要證明LBJ很強有很多方法, 不需要拿MJ來墊背吧?
一邊用你的論點來壓MJ幫LBJ抬轎, 另一邊又下結論說MJ比較偉大, 是吃了錯亂藥嗎?
--
一直拿一些贏MJ但大家都不注重的數據來襯托我皇,
然後墊一句"雖然如此, 我還是覺得MJ比較偉大" 就想塞住人嘴巴.
感覺就像是有人一腳重過一腳往MJ海報上踩,
另一邊卻雙手合十向LBJ的海報膜拜.
踩踏完畢還丟下一句 "MJ,你還是比較強的" ,
這樣MJ迷會忍得下去嗎?!!!
※ 引述《kart (=\)》之銘言：
: 真是夠了！嘲笑LeBron在總冠的戰績只有2-4真的是一個
: 最蠢的立論了，而這也是酸民們最新最潮的酸法來捍衛MJ神聖的
: 傳奇成就。
: Why is 2-4 so misleading?
: 為啥2-4誤導很大？
: Let's count the reasons.
: 我數著數，至少有下列原因。
: 1. Six straight Finals is basically unheard of
: 第一，連續六年進總冠基本上已經接近前無古人。
要比較得過6次NBA Titles, 6次Finals MVP的男人,
卻拿連續進決賽的紀錄來說嘴是哪招? 就算你連續15年進Finals, 最後只拿3冠3MVP,
成就就是差人一截.
NBA就是個Winners take all的圈子, 要不然, 今年的73勝勇士哪會被酸這麼慘?
: Another common barb thrown at James' record is that he's always
: gotten an easy road to the Finals. One pretty big reason for that:
: Of the nine 60-win teams from the East since James entered the
: league, James has been on three of them. Also, the last two 60-win
: East teams James faced in the playoffs? He beat both.
: 另外一個常見的酸點是說LeBron躲東區，進總冠容易啦。
: 但是別忘了一個很重要的原因是，在LBJ進入聯盟以來東區的9隻
: 60w球隊裡面，LeBron自己就佔了3隻。而最近兩隻東區的60w球隊，
: LeBron也都打敗了他們
戰東區強隊的戰績勝率高只能證明LBJ的球隊在東區獨霸, 跟東區強弱何關?
照這種戰強隊的邏輯, 不如我們用更高的標準來檢視MJ.
以65w以上的強隊對戰來檢視公牛大家說如何?
對決65w球隊, MJ是1敗0勝 (生涯第二年第一輪對決大鳥).
(不知LBJ生涯第二年的季後賽戰績如何?)
先別高興太早, MJ整個職業生涯只產生過5次65w以上的強隊,
其中3次就是公牛自己本身!!!!
MJ: "要證明能夠打贏超級強隊, 老子還在苦尋機會啦!"
: The stat you don't often hear is that James has reached the Finals
: in seven of his 11 postseasons, which is astounding to think
: about. At just 31 years old, James has already reached the
: championship round more times than Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone,
: George Gervin, Alex English, Bob Lanier, Dan Issel, Charles
: Barkley, Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins, Steve Nash and Yao
: Ming ... combined. Yes, combined.
: 是的，你不會聽到人們提到LeBron 11進季後賽裡，有
: 七次能打總冠，當你試著去想這項成就時，你會感到很了不起。
: LeBron現在31歲，而他進冠軍賽的次數已經超過下面這些名人堂
: 球員加起來還多了：
: 大O，摩斯馬龍，冰人，Alex English, Bob Lanier, Dan Issel,
: 老巴, 神米，Wilkins, 奈許和姚明。
: 是的，全部加起來！
以LBJ這種要競爭歷史前10球星的身價, 需要拉這批人來救援嗎?
前幾天不是有人說LBJ的比肩目標應該是魔術?
魔術13年進過9次Finals, 但是好像不大有人會拿這當魔術的成就.
提到魔術, 大家都會想到3MVP, 3FMVP, 5冠, 助攻王, 三雙王,
: 2. Michael Jordan "failed" earlier
: 第二，老喬早年也曾經「失敗」過
: Critics of James will point to 2-4 as both an indictment on his
: career and a nod of praise to Michael Jordan and his sterling 6-0
: record. By slighting James, it props up Jordan's legacy as the G.
: O. A. T. (Greatest of All-Time).
: 那些用總冠戰績2-4來批評LeBron的人總是不忘提起
: 老喬6-0的總冠"神蹟"。好像把LeBron說得弱一點，就更能
: 捍衛老喬是史上最強球員的地位了一樣。
: But a fact that's rarely brought up is that James has missed the
: Finals just four times in his postseason career. By comparison,
: Jordan reached the Finals in just six of his 13 postseasons.
: Framing it another way, James is 7-4 in getting to the
: championship round while Jordan was 6-7.
: 但是事實上，這些人都選擇忽略LeBron 11次季後賽裡
: 就打了7次總冠，而用這個標準來看，老喬 13次季後賽裡面，
: 竟然「只」進了總冠六次，所以這樣看來，LBJ反而以7-4領先MJ的6-7。
: What a loser that Jordan guy was! Missed the Finals more times
: than he made it!
: 哇，那個叫喬丹的傢伙真是遜啊！竟然進不了總冠的次數
: 比進去的次數還多ㄟ！
再說一次, Winners take all.
要用進總決賽的次數來談成就,
Elgin Baylor 跟Logo 人肯定是飛天遁地了,
Magic 和賈霸也應該依次來挑戰MJ歷史第一人的地位.
: After all, James has never lost in the first round of the playoffs
: either (something Jordan suffered three times). And James has
: never been swept in the first round either (something Jordan
: endured twice).
: 畢竟，LBJ在季後賽還沒有一輪游過，而老喬生涯前三年
: 的季後賽戰績可是1-9，一輪游了整整三年。包含兩次被橫掃呢。
LBJ沒一輪游過只是因為前兩年連第一輪都沒辦法打,
不要自己畫靶自己放靶自己射箭.
: Looking at the Finals, Jordan didn't ever have to face a 65-win
: team, while James has faced two in the last two seasons alone.
: Furthermore, Jordan enjoyed homecourt advantage in five of his six
: appearances, a luxury that James has only had in two of his six
: Finals trips, underscoring that James has overachieved in getting
: to the Finals with subpar rosters.
: 再回頭來看看總冠吧，老喬從來沒有在總冠遇到65w以上的球隊，
: 而LeBron過去兩年已經遇到兩次。更有甚者，老喬在冠軍賽六次
: 裡面享有五次主場優勢。而LBJ七次裡面只有兩次。
: 這代表LeBron其實在己隊實力略遜的情況下依然能帶隊進冠軍賽
: 並不容易。
如前所述, 公牛自己本身就是3次65w球隊,
其他兩隻65w各出現在他的生涯第二(負)第三年(沒遇到),
就算MJ裝弱也不保證其他隊能超過65w讓他有機會證明自己打得贏65w呀!
:
: And yet, people scream and shout that James is a championship
: bust.
: 儘管如此，酸民們依然會大吼大叫著說LBJ就是個亞軍咖
: 3. Championship-or-bust mentality is lunacy
: 第三，不奪冠就失敗的心態是一種變態。
: Yes, winning the championship is the ultimate team goal. But it is
: not the only goal and it certainly isn't the most important
: individual achievement. Winning the MVP, for instance, is far more
: reflective of a player's accomplishments than touting a
: championship-or-bust stat that is so dependent on supporting cast,
: coaching and plain ol' good luck.
: 是的，冠軍是任何一支球隊所要爭取的終極目標。
: 但是並不是唯一的一個目標，而且它並不是最重要的「個人成就」。
: 事實上，贏得MVP代表的個人成就遠比冠軍要高。畢竟冠軍的成分
: 總是和球隊如何息息相關，教練和一些運氣成分在裡面。
再3提醒, NBA是Winners Take All.
你不是robert horry, 你不是steve kerr, 你是LBJ, 要歷史成就爬得更高,
請多拿冠軍, 多拿Finals MVP.
:
: By the way, while we're talking about individual achievements,
: have you seen who leads the all-time leaderboard for win shares in
: the postseason?
: 對了，我們現在講到了個人成就，你有去看看現在
: 史上季後賽win shares最高的球員是誰嗎？
: That would be James, who just passed MJ last week. James has
: accumulated 40.1 playoff win shares while Jordan generated 39.8
: with his play, according to Basketball-Reference.com's all-in-one
: metric.
: 那傢伙叫做LeBron James，他在上禮拜剛剛超越了老喬，
: 成為季後賽史上WS最高的球員。
: Playoff win shares
: Win Shares
: LeBron James 40.1
: Michael Jordan 39.8
: Tim Duncan 37.8
: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 35.6
: Magic Johnson 32.6
Win Shares是職涯累積數據, 不如比平均數據如何? WS/48 LBJ是多少? 有贏MJ嗎?
: This is all not to say James is better than Jordan. That is not a
: discussion we're having today, not when James is 31 years old and
: likely just a little past the halfway point in his career.
: 當然，我說了那麼多，並不是在說LeBron比老喬棒。
: 這並不是我們今天所要討論的，並不是在LeBron還只有31歲，
: 並且還在巔峰的後半段的時候。
我說了這麼多, 也不是想證明Lebron有很爛,
畢竟拿了3冠3FMVP, 把它排進歷史前10也是很合情合理.
但是作者先生, 你要證明LBJ很強有很多方法, 不需要拿MJ來墊背吧?
一邊用你的論點來壓MJ幫LBJ抬轎, 另一邊又下結論說MJ比較偉大, 是吃了錯亂藥嗎?
--
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