Phil對用了Posse這個字感到後悔 - NBA

Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2016-12-07T11:55

Table of Contents

從事情發生至今只用一個奇怪的推特文回應過的Phil
(要大家去捐錢一個用了Posse這個字的相關慈善機構)
這次終於中規中矩的回應了

原文
https://goo.gl/286n8y

Knicks president Phil Jackson says he made a mistake in talking
about another team's player when he made comments about LeBron
James last month that included the word "posse" in describing the
Cavaliers star's business associates.
Phil Jackson說自己犯了個錯誤去討論他隊隊員,包含用了
posse這個字去形容Lebron的經紀人朋友們。

"That's a topic I'm not going to discuss because one, we are not
supposed to discuss other teams' players in this position that I
have here. So I violated one of the tenets of our thing," Jackson
said in an interview on the CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday.
「我並不打算繼續在這個議題上打轉,因為我們並不應該在這個節骨眼
去討論別隊的球員。所以我之前的確犯了這個不該犯的錯。」
Phil Jackson今天在接受CBS的訪問時如是說。

"The obvious thing is, the word itself carries connotation. And I
just don't understand that, that part of it -- the word," Jackson
added. "So I guess word choice could be something I could regret.
But talking about other teams' players, that's out of the box."
「很明顯的事實就是這個字的確帶了一些不一樣的引申意在,
而我的確沒有明瞭到這一點,關於這個字的意思。所以我想
在用字遣詞上的確是一件我會後悔的事。不過基本上我認為
我更不該做的事是去談論其他隊的球員。」

James and business partner Maverick Carter slammed Jackson last
month for what they perceived was an intended slight by the 11-
time championship coach when he retold a story about James' days
with the Miami Heat in an interview with ESPN's Jackie MacMullan.
LeBron和他的商業夥伴們上個月曾經為了posse這個字和Phil
槓上。

James said on Monday that he has no interest in meeting with
Jackson while the Cavaliers are in New York to play the Knicks on
Wednesday night.
LeBron昨天說她並沒有打算在紐約和Phil見面談論此事。

Jackson also didn't feel the need to address the issue with James.
Phil同樣也不認為會面是必要的。

"No. It's water under the bridge," he said. "I don't think there
was anybody hurt or harmed in this situation. I think LeBron's
friend [Carter] obviously had an issue with it. We just let it go.
It's not enough to talk about it."
「不用,這件事就讓船過水無痕,我不認為有人實質上受到了什麼傷害。
我想LeBron的好友Carter的確是對這件事有意見。我們應該讓這事過去。
這並不足以讓我們刻意去對話。」

Jackson used the term "posse" to describe James' business
associates when discussing James' leaving the Miami Heat in free
agency.
回顧Phil用posse的訪問。

"It had to hurt when they lost LeBron," Jackson said. "That was
definitely a slap in the face. But there were a lot of little
things that came out of that. When LeBron was playing with the
Heat, they went to Cleveland, and he wanted to spend the night.
They don't do overnights. Teams just don't. So now [coach Erik]
Spoelstra has to text [Pat] Riley and say, 'What do I do in this
situation?' And Pat, who has iron-fist rules, answers: 'You are on
the plane. You are with this team.' You can't hold up the whole
team because you and your mom and your posse want to spend an
extra night in Cleveland.

"I always thought Pat had this really nice vibe with his guys. But
something happened there where it broke down. I do know LeBron
likes special treatment. He needs things his way."

Jackson was also asked during the CBS Sports Network interview
about Golden State coach Steve Kerr's use of medicinal marijuana
to recover from back surgery. He said he used marijuana during his
own recovery from back surgery.
Phil也被問到對於Steve Kerr用大麻的看法。

"The year that I was off I was smoking marijuana during that
period of time. I think it was a distraction for me as much as a
pain reliever," Jackson said. "But I never thought of it as
ultimately a pain medication for that type of situation."
「我在背傷復原的期間也是有吸大麻。不過對我而言大麻是讓我
忘憂的方式而不全然是用來止痛。基本上我從來不把大麻看成
是個止痛藥就是了。」

Jackson said marijuana was "something that we either have to
accommodate or figure out another way to deal with it."
Phil也認為聯盟要用更聰明的方式去看待大麻。

"We have tried to stop [marijuana use] in the NBA," Jackson said.
"I don't think we have been able to stop it. I think it still goes
on and is still a part of the culture in the NBA."
「聯盟曾經試過停止大麻使用,但是我認為這是很難成功的。
大麻是NBA文化的一部分。」

=============================

心得:
要老人家承認自己用錯字真的不容易,雖然說得很隱諱不過也算是
Phil在這件事情上承認犯錯了?

至於有些人還搞不清楚狀況說是LeBron他們反應過度的,
我在美國主流媒體上就這件事還沒看過半個人站在Phil這邊的,
印象中包括McHail,T-Mac, Miller, Magic, Webber
SAS甚至Skip Bayless都明白說Phil錯了,唯一幫Phil說過話的是
一個廣播節目的主持人Dan Le Batard說Phil只是用了老派的字,
應無惡意。

至於說為啥LeBron會提到非裔美人做得還不夠等等讓人覺得是否暗示
種族歧視我想的確很難跟住在台灣的人解釋清楚。
這樣說好了,平平都是運動員身邊掛的那一大票朋友群,
白人名運動員旁邊的那些人一般會叫做entourage
黑人名運動員旁邊的那些人則會被叫做posse
基本上絕對不會交叉使用,即使這兩個字並沒有所謂「種族歧視」的意味
但是entourage代表的是 friends that do things for you
而posse代表的則是friends that take things from you

也就是說即使這群人基本上屬性相同(都是掛在名人旁邊的那群人)
身為白人在用詞上就是偏向「良師益友」正向意義的entourage
黑人就變成是偏向「狐群狗黨」負面意義的posse
所以這樣算有沒有種族歧視意義呢? 即使字的本身沒有歧視意義...
更別提LeBron的四人幫朋友也算是努力出了成績,
你可以說是還不是LeBron幫的?但是如同LeBron自己說的,
他給他們的是機會,去認識最棒的企業家和經紀人,從零學起到今天的地位
他們也很努力卻被說成是posse才會感到生氣罷了。

現在Phil在明天兩隊開戰前出來緩頰,至於夠不夠力明天就知道了 ^^


--
Tags: NBA

All Comments

Daph Bay avatar
By Daph Bay
at 2016-12-09T00:16
ㄎ ㄎ 白人
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2016-12-13T18:47
科科
Michael avatar
By Michael
at 2016-12-15T20:38
Noah: P*ssy
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2016-12-16T03:07
我記得之前幾個住湖邊的球迷一直出來教英文
Heather avatar
By Heather
at 2016-12-20T17:25
會怕吼
Lydia avatar
By Lydia
at 2016-12-22T02:56
那黃人名運動員身邊那群人叫?
Skylar DavisLinda avatar
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2016-12-23T03:58
打臉鄉民顆顆
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2016-12-27T04:28
valet
Ethan avatar
By Ethan
at 2016-12-30T14:25
今天早上白宮還說搶劫黃種人是言論自由耶,這算什
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2017-01-02T18:40
推!!這篇對於英文的講解很恰當,就不知道鄉民懂不懂
Dorothy avatar
By Dorothy
at 2017-01-05T13:28
大麻是NBA文化的一部份~~ 戰吧~
Poppy avatar
By Poppy
at 2017-01-06T12:59
possy
Jacky avatar
By Jacky
at 2017-01-11T04:06
禪師打臉一堆說沒差護航自己的人XDDD
Jacky avatar
By Jacky
at 2017-01-14T01:43
之前不是有一個說去論壇看風向 歪國人覺得沒什麼
禪師幹嘛道歉勒 沒什麼阿
Kumar avatar
By Kumar
at 2017-01-15T14:57
又一次證明有沒有歧視是黑人說了算
Frederic avatar
By Frederic
at 2017-01-20T09:46
推4F 某些人還說是LBJ大驚小怪
Ursula avatar
By Ursula
at 2017-01-23T12:28
18124:沒有嚴重到要這樣反彈吧
Isabella avatar
By Isabella
at 2017-01-25T21:35
好像還有使立康的樣子
Emily avatar
By Emily
at 2017-01-26T19:46
拿reddit看風向不就跟拿PTT看風向一樣
Sarah avatar
By Sarah
at 2017-01-27T10:29
嗯...至少Reddit人比較多?
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2017-01-27T21:41
打臉一堆英文小老師
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2017-02-01T01:49
黃人身邊的朋友叫做建州
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2017-02-01T16:19
黑人自己也歧視黃種人,黑人饒舌歌手都可以在歌詞
裏面歧視黃種人了,每次看到黑人出來抗議種族歧視就
覺得好笑又噁心
Olivia avatar
By Olivia
at 2017-02-05T04:15
禪師滾
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2017-02-09T23:56
不先管好自己在那邊叫別人不要歧視 真是呵呵
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2017-02-13T14:59
今天會鬧這麼大還不是因為LBJ是黑人 如果今天是林
書豪 恐怕還有一堆球員認為說得好
Mason avatar
By Mason
at 2017-02-14T09:37
美國黑人團結起來真的很可怕,反觀
John avatar
By John
at 2017-02-17T13:24
說那個詞不適用的人也沒提到種族吧
Hamiltion avatar
By Hamiltion
at 2017-02-22T05:39
腦補書豪的也太怪了,吧
Connor avatar
By Connor
at 2017-02-24T07:24
大麻是美國的文化
Odelette avatar
By Odelette
at 2017-02-27T20:36
也不是很難和臺灣人解釋的問題 ...國外也一樣
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2017-03-02T09:39
昔有趙高指鹿為馬 今有喇叭指posse為種族歧視
這只是簡單的政治手法 故意講錯,看多少人站在我這
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2017-03-04T17:15
有權的人總是能把錯的凹成對的 就像耻從錯字變對的
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2017-03-07T16:10
白人世界貴族道歉?
Rae avatar
By Rae
at 2017-03-09T18:40
下次會用pussy這個字
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2017-03-13T07:20
爛禪師
Mia avatar
By Mia
at 2017-03-14T04:12
今天才看到白宮對歧視華人的用語表示言論自由
Xanthe avatar
By Xanthe
at 2017-03-14T22:01
當時一堆人還拼命護航…
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2017-03-17T16:15
故意講錯讓禪師道歉?腦補成這樣真不簡單
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2017-03-19T22:23
Caitlin avatar
By Caitlin
at 2017-03-20T06:15
故意講錯? 我還想說別人設局哩 硬拗腦補難看
Elizabeth avatar
By Elizabeth
at 2017-03-22T15:22
再護航啊哈哈
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2017-03-27T12:08
黃種人名運動員旁邊那群叫nerds
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2017-03-30T04:37
禪師鬥政治想贏姆斯 想太多
Elvira avatar
By Elvira
at 2017-04-01T06:56
如果確如本文解釋posse幾乎為黑人專用那就有貶意或
歧視。反之若非黑人白人分用說歧視根本不合理。
Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2017-04-03T03:44
住湖邊的球迷 XDDDDDDD
Enid avatar
By Enid
at 2017-04-03T17:25
樓上,這個論點stan Van Gundy之前就提過了
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2017-04-06T08:17
雖然是慣用的歧視性語言,但用在詹詹身上真是中肯
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2017-04-09T02:26
他在此前接受訪問關於這件事情時,承認自己用過poss
e這個詞,他也說這個詞絕對不曾對認為白人用posse
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2017-04-13T16:17
我 詹 霸 氣
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2017-04-14T19:22
黃人運動員身邊的剛好也叫黑人
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2017-04-17T14:15
當初不是一堆翻譯大師…………躲哪去了
Oscar avatar
By Oscar
at 2017-04-20T19:00
打臉護航的 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% XD
Oliver avatar
By Oliver
at 2017-04-24T09:16
謝謝英文教學,與朗文、牛津的解釋相比也說得通。
Anonymous avatar
By Anonymous
at 2017-04-27T17:48
我相信Phill沒有惡意,如果用詞造成誤會,除了澄清
Audriana avatar
By Audriana
at 2017-04-28T17:25
也是檢視大眾對文辭認知正確與否的時候,
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2017-04-29T07:58
而非人云亦云,如:「歧視」、「霸凌」此類的字了。
Franklin avatar
By Franklin
at 2017-05-01T11:43
UCCU
Caitlin avatar
By Caitlin
at 2017-05-03T10:23
以後不要再犯錯了,禪師,種族歧視很嚴重的。
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2017-05-07T20:25
Phil的說法就還是他不明瞭posse這個字有種族歧視的
含意,所以當初他在用這個詞上他還是不認有別人指的
Gilbert avatar
By Gilbert
at 2017-05-11T07:19
種族歧視意味
顯然今天在黑人族群中有認為這個字posse是種族歧視
Agatha avatar
By Agatha
at 2017-05-14T16:29
但的確也有不少的美國人根本不認為這個字是帶有歧視
意味的
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2017-05-15T07:00
今天這篇ESPN的報導下面一些人的評論有,如果假設當
初是Doc Rivers用了這個字,LeBron還會反應這麼大嗎?
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2017-05-16T15:44
I have watched basketball, listened to music and
watched movies my entire life. The people that
"hang around" with actors, musicians and athlete
Leila avatar
By Leila
at 2017-05-18T06:09
are ROUTINELY called POSSE. Not derogatory.
Not racist.
Genevieve avatar
By Genevieve
at 2017-05-18T09:48
the term posse has been used in the NBA to
discuss close friends who came with a player for
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2017-05-21T18:42
假設根本沒意義啊,Doc Rivers會不會去因為自己不
成功的GM工作,而去議論別人扯開關注都很難說
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2017-05-23T06:30
couple of decades now. I believe it was players
who first termed them as such. I thought it
Doris avatar
By Doris
at 2017-05-27T08:40
was pretty cool then...The term itself has no
negative connotation and certainly not a racist
one as the media wishes to portray.
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2017-05-27T14:16
那個假設的意思是如果今天是一個黑人用了posse這個
字評論,LeBron會不會像聽到一個白人的Phil Jackson
Bennie avatar
By Bennie
at 2017-05-30T06:13
用這個字,來感覺有種族歧視,跟甚麼GM越界評論無關
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2017-06-01T15:47
你不覺得這個假設一樣沒意義嗎?
David avatar
By David
at 2017-06-05T04:14
一個成就非凡、地位高的黑人,為什麼會對一個成功人
Donna avatar
By Donna
at 2017-06-06T01:04
士及他的商業夥伴使用posse這個詞彙形容他們?
Aaliyah avatar
By Aaliyah
at 2017-06-06T13:29
而且還是在一個公開場合?
Blanche avatar
By Blanche
at 2017-06-06T16:55
那顯然上面兩個引述的評論你沒看或沒看懂
Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2017-06-09T23:15
posse這個字不是每個美國人都認為有負面或種族歧視
意味的
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2017-06-11T02:25
我沒看你貼的那些英文,用手機看太零碎不方便閱讀
Hazel avatar
By Hazel
at 2017-06-14T07:40
posse不是每個人都認為負面或種族歧視這點文章不是
內文就有解釋了嗎?
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2017-06-14T16:56
還好吧,其實上面英文簡單到不用十幾秒就可以看完了
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2017-06-18T07:38
我知道內文有解釋,但推文有些人還是說當初那些提國
外風向認為LeBron大驚小怪,或住海邊來教英文的
我尊重LeBron對這個字的觀感,但我還是認為可以補充
Suhail Hany avatar
By Suhail Hany
at 2017-06-23T02:52
這個字的確對部分美國人來說是沒惡意的,那些當初跳
出來秉此論點的人也不是甚麼真的住海邊搞不清狀況
Quanna avatar
By Quanna
at 2017-06-27T22:47
拿Reddit說LeBron大驚小怪,算有搞清楚狀況嗎?
William avatar
By William
at 2017-07-02T12:17
先不說被引述的人是哪些觀點,拿一個網路論壇來解讀
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2017-07-02T14:50
或LeBron評論本來就有問題吧?
或評論LeBron (上面錯置
Aaliyah avatar
By Aaliyah
at 2017-07-04T18:43
你說Reddit覺得這不是這麼大問題,那為何球員紛紛出
來說Phil Jackson的措詞不當?
Suhail Hany avatar
By Suhail Hany
at 2017-07-08T21:52
不用說reddit啊,光看這新聞一開始出來國外Yahoo下面
上百條評論,很多都認為LeBron是個crybaby還有太敏感
Tristan Cohan avatar
By Tristan Cohan
at 2017-07-13T20:50
今天我們要選擇去尊重LeBron對個字他的感受,但同時
Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2017-07-18T03:08
去理解這個詞對部分美國人來說並沒惡意,這是可以並
行的
Leila avatar
By Leila
at 2017-07-22T12:53
Yahoo上百條評論不一樣是網路上的言論嗎?
Victoria avatar
By Victoria
at 2017-07-26T20:50
T-Mac、Durant、R.Miller、Harden、Melo等人跟Reddi
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2017-07-31T14:22
t或是Yahoo這類不具名的網路言論,何者更有說服力
Lauren avatar
By Lauren
at 2017-08-02T23:09
請問網路上的言論不就是一般美國人的言論跟看法嗎?
Blanche avatar
By Blanche
at 2017-08-04T04:28
這還有貴賤之分嗎?
快雞同鴨講了,我說了尊重LeBron對這字的感受,其他人
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2017-08-08T06:03
如果也對這字覺得有那意味或不妥,那顯然大家都要學
習去理解跟尊重
我上面引述強調的只是這個字是有不少美國人沒這個負
Oscar avatar
By Oscar
at 2017-08-09T18:55
面想法
Eartha avatar
By Eartha
at 2017-08-11T11:06
很多黑人球員也是被身邊這群人搞垮的,possi對大部份
狀況是蠻中肯的
Linda avatar
By Linda
at 2017-08-14T02:30
那你認為PTT言論可以代表全台灣人的言論或看法嗎?
Kumar avatar
By Kumar
at 2017-08-17T12:06
這是無限上綱嗎?我說了不只一次這個字對部分美國人
沒負面含意,然後說尊重LeBron或其他人對這個字的感
Erin avatar
By Erin
at 2017-08-19T17:55
網路言論也是言論的一環,但也只是其中一環而已
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2017-08-20T04:16
受,請問很難看得懂或理解嗎?
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2017-08-23T05:10
"部分美國人"這次我上面反覆用過了,我沒天真到說網
路上的言論代表全部?請看清楚再來對話
不然雞同鴨講真的沒意思
Caitlin avatar
By Caitlin
at 2017-08-24T18:01
你要說不是每個人都認為posse帶有貶意,所以當初有
Lucy avatar
By Lucy
at 2017-08-26T18:23
些人拿Reddit或是Yahoo評論來評論LeBron大驚小怪很
合理不是?
Brianna avatar
By Brianna
at 2017-08-28T17:07
我就是反駁這點阿,拿Reddit對posse一詞的理解來評
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2017-08-29T06:15
論LeBron的反應過大,這哪裡合理了?
Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2017-09-02T10:51
Reddit沒偉大到去定義posse一詞,而是網路上很多美國
Elizabeth avatar
By Elizabeth
at 2017-09-06T09:41
人依據己身對posse的理解,都不認為有貶意
Elizabeth avatar
By Elizabeth
at 2017-09-09T07:43
我也沒說Reddit定義posse,我說的是他們對posse一詞
John avatar
By John
at 2017-09-11T01:56
reddit至少種族人種多樣 ptt??
Zenobia avatar
By Zenobia
at 2017-09-14T17:14
的理解,跟你說的沒有不同吧?
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2017-09-16T21:19
今天Phil Jackson的最新言論出來,找個CBS的報導好了
Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2017-09-19T04:50
James Herbert那篇下面也是還有人認為LeBron太敏感
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2017-09-22T04:17
Much Ado about absolutely nothing. LeBron is
getting so damn sensitive.
lebrun is a big baby
Oliver avatar
By Oliver
at 2017-09-22T06:54
He has nothing to apologize for, and it's not a
big deal. It never should have been.
Zanna avatar
By Zanna
at 2017-09-23T11:24
good for phil. he did nothing wrong. if somebody
else wants to twist something around to what it
is not, then that is their problem.
Tristan Cohan avatar
By Tristan Cohan
at 2017-09-24T02:32
A:原住民愛喝酒 B:你歧視 A:我用的詞哪裡歧視很中性
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2017-09-29T02:15
就算今天Phil出來說這詞當初用的可以斟酌,但評論隨
便找都是認為他一開始沒做錯甚麼
Frederica avatar
By Frederica
at 2017-09-30T02:43
你貼這個出來不就跟上面講的一樣嗎,我還以為要說什
Mia avatar
By Mia
at 2017-09-30T13:09
麼特別的,結果只是把覺得沒什麼的言論PO出來..
John avatar
By John
at 2017-10-01T18:08
所以就算Phil今天出來說這話,還是有人覺得這根本沒
甚麼,是當初LeBron太敏感了
有像這邊說的Phil出來打臉那些當初覺得這個字沒甚麼
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2017-10-05T20:22
這麼說吧,言論本身不具有貴賤之分,但隨著社經地位
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2017-10-09T17:17
這樣的說法嗎?
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2017-10-11T06:54
的不同,本來用詞就要修飾,更何況是在公開場合
評論其他具有一定社經地位的人
Ivy avatar
By Ivy
at 2017-10-13T19:00
如果大家都能這麼斟酌用詞,社會上就少很多"所謂的"
失言風波了
Yedda avatar
By Yedda
at 2017-10-14T20:58
posse這個詞對部分美國人來說是沒貶意,用習慣你也很
Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2017-10-16T02:05
難說Phil Jackson一開始這樣說是有意識的去貶低
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2017-10-17T15:02
他也不是第一次用posse指稱LeBron那群朋友了
Sarah avatar
By Sarah
at 2017-10-20T22:49
那他不是第一次這樣指稱,代表甚麼?
Una avatar
By Una
at 2017-10-25T08:42
第一次使用posse就帶有明顯貶意了,這次在用LeBron
Elvira avatar
By Elvira
at 2017-10-27T22:28
會認為他沒有貶意才奇怪
Delia avatar
By Delia
at 2017-10-31T07:04
他曾指年輕球員身邊的posse都是幫忙停車、找妹的
Oscar avatar
By Oscar
at 2017-11-03T20:03
你說這不帶有貶意?就當幫忙停車、找妹不算貶意好了
Michael avatar
By Michael
at 2017-11-08T17:56
拿這個"定義"來指稱跟LeBron一起建立起現在商業帝國
Maverick Carter等人,這樣還不帶有貶意?
Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2017-11-12T07:27
大麻是NBA文化的一部分
Joe avatar
By Joe
at 2017-11-12T17:05
被用錯字
Odelette avatar
By Odelette
at 2017-11-17T03:55
真可憐道歉了還要被__迷追殺
Kumar avatar
By Kumar
at 2017-11-19T14:42
Phil弱欸 繼續講那個詞啊 笑你不敢
Daniel avatar
By Daniel
at 2017-11-20T16:06
黑娃旁邊的朋友群→NERD
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2017-11-24T05:49
Heather avatar
By Heather
at 2017-11-27T00:27
不知者無罪

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