Is Pujols the greatest hitter of all time? - 美國職棒

Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2011-10-24T18:43

Table of Contents


http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/17960/is-pujols-the-greatest-hitter-of-all-time



I asked my colleague Jim Caple a simple question: "Who is on your short list
of the greatest hitters of all time?"

He reeled off the names: Pujols, Bonds, Ruth, Williams ... Mays, Hornsby,
Cobb (a little reluctantly on that one). We could include a few others, of
course -- Gehrig, Aaron, Musial.

Anyway, maybe we'll do a more thorough examination of this question in the
offseason. This is just a quick primer as we sit here waiting for the start
of Game 4.

Here are the all-time leaders in FanGraphs' wRC+, which compares a hitter's
runs created to an average player and is park- and league-adjusted, so a
batter with a 150 wRC+ created 50 percent more runs than average:

1. Babe Ruth, 197
2. Ted Williams, 189
3. Barry Bonds, 175
4. Lou Gehrig, 174
5. Rogers Hornsby, 171
6. Ty Cobb, 171
7. Mickey Mantle, 171
8. Albert Pujols, 167

Here is the case against each of those eight, plus Willie Mays:

Babe Ruth
Case against: The advanced statistics don't factor in a timeline adjustment
-- or what can be called the evolutionary improvement in the game. Overall,
the players in Ruth's era were not as good, not as big and strong as today,
the equipment wasn't as good, the fields not as good. This made it easier for
a great player to excel above a league-average type of player. Put it this
way: Ruth did not have to face guys like Alexi Ogando throwing 97-mph
fastballs and 89-mph sliders. You think Ruth would be able to get the
40-ounce bat he used in 1927 around on a 100-mph Justin Verlander heater?

Ted Williams
Case against: The era he played in was perfect for him, a time when pitchers
walked more hitters than now, amplifying Williams' skill-set -- patience the
plate -- even more. Only hit 40 home runs once. While wRC+ accounts for
Fenway being a great hitter's park, it perhaps doesn't fully factor in the
advantage it gave Williams, who hit .361 there, .328 on the road. Integration
didn't come until the second half of his career, and even then the AL lagged
behind the NL.

Barry Bonds
Case against: Bonds through the 1999 season: .288/.409/.559; Bonds from 2000
(when he turned 36 during the season) to the end of his career:
.322/.517/.724.

Lou Gehrig
Case against: Played in the 1920s and 1930s, the best offensive era in major
league history. Played before integration. Since he got sick, his last season
came when he was 35, so he missed the decline phase of his career, which
would have lowered his career wRC+ number (although boosting his overall
numbers).

Rogers Hornsby
Case against: Fabulous peak, but last great season came when he was just 33.
Same arguments here as Ruth and Gehrig; without a timeline adjustment it was
easier to statistically excel over an average player. Here's another example
about the quality of play issue: In the 1920s National League, when Hornsby
dominated, the strikeout rate never topped 3.0 per nine innings. Are we to
assume the hitters were all just awesome back then? Or is it possible
pitchers just didn't throw as hard, and thus it was easier to put the ball in
play?

Ty Cobb
Case against: Talk about a different era. Fielders used gloves barely bigger
than their hands when he played. He hit with a split-handed grip, which I'm
not sure would fly against 97-mph fastballs on a regular basis. H&B factory
records list his bat sizes in 1920 as 36 to 38 ounces, and 37 to 40 ounces in
1921-22. All this suggests a batting style more like a guy slapping the ball
in play, as opposed to trying to drive the ball on a regular basis. (I'm not
exactly saying Ichiro here; more like a slightly more powerful version of
Tony Gwynn.) Could he have hit for power in a different era?

Mickey Mantle
Case against: Short career, too many injuries. Never played 150 games in a
season after turning 30.

Albert Pujols
Case against: Has yet to enter decline phase of his career, grounds into too
many double plays, doesn't walk quite as much as OBP kings like Ruth,
Williams, Bonds and Mantle. The big question here: Has he entered the decline
phase of his career? The biggest red flag to me on his 2011 season is that
his walk rate dropped significantly from previous seasons, as he was more
aggressive at the plate (he swung at 44 percent of all pitches this season,
compared to slightly less than 40 percent over the previous five seasons).
This change of approach could signify a guy who recognized his bat speed has
started to slow slightly and thus swung more often early in the count. Or it
could simply be a situation of him getting more pitches to hit with Lance
Berkman and Matt Holliday hitting behind him.

Willie Mays
Case against: Career on-base percentage is nearly 100 points below Ruth and
Williams, lowering his career wRC+ to .157.

--

All Comments

Damian avatar
By Damian
at 2011-10-27T23:38
這個標題怎麼有點像問Kobe是不是籃球史上最偉大球員
Necoo avatar
By Necoo
at 2011-11-01T00:58
其他跟棒子爺 當時候差很多呀 同個時代
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2011-11-03T22:12
這篇如果是中文,就會戰起來XD
Xanthe avatar
By Xanthe
at 2011-11-05T09:43
引戰外電嗎 囧
Frederica avatar
By Frederica
at 2011-11-09T20:21
近代就有一個棒茲神強多惹 沒什好戰...
Rosalind avatar
By Rosalind
at 2011-11-14T15:40
不看遠的 光看Bonds爺 這個問題就沒啥好討論了..
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2011-11-17T17:36
當初看到棒子爺把道奇隊幹爺的百麥球扛出去就覺得很恐怖
Doris avatar
By Doris
at 2011-11-22T05:31
連棒子爺都不一定了 更不要說上古神獸
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2011-11-24T05:58
大概就是這個時代的Mickey Mantle吧
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2011-11-28T19:12
打擊跟Mantle相當 記得cclu說過Mantle是有ichiro速度的Pujo
Frederica avatar
By Frederica
at 2011-12-02T15:38
外電戰文XD 有人要把它翻譯的更有戰意嗎XD
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2011-12-04T02:43
ls
Agatha avatar
By Agatha
at 2011-12-08T00:15
只要有棒子爺擋在前面...近代應該沒有人可以稱最強
Wallis avatar
By Wallis
at 2011-12-10T19:03
有176速度的外星人 那不就是咱們統一獅的小破了嗎
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2011-12-12T12:57
這個問題沒啥好討論的,就算再過100年也沒有人能超越
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2011-12-14T07:58
Babe Ruth的地位
Harry avatar
By Harry
at 2011-12-18T20:04
可惜吃藥臭了
John avatar
By John
at 2011-12-23T18:16
Babe Ruth一個人當兩個用!XD
Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2011-12-26T21:04
作者把Bonds生涯從2000年分成兩半,OPS從0.96->1.24
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2011-12-29T10:09
( ) → ( * )

Theo Epstein 為紅襪帶來了甚麼?

Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2011-10-24T12:00
※ [本文轉錄自 MLB 看板 #1EestdFY ] 作者: celipliz (犀利痞子) 看板: MLB 標題: [閒聊] Theo Epstein 為紅襪帶來了甚麼? 時間: Sun Oct 23 09:29:01 2011 http://ppt.cc/q8Rs Boston Herald 的寫 ...

STL @ TEX (World Series G4)

Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2011-10-24T06:10
STL leads World Series 2-1 ╭──┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─┬─╮ │ G4 │1│2│3│4│5│6│7│8│9│R│H│E│ ├──┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤ ...

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Olivia avatar
By Olivia
at 2011-10-24T03:34
※ 引述《burdette (勇士光芒 外卡人生)》之銘言: : ※ 引述《rbgspydm (彭彭)》之銘言: : : 看到klarc版友推文, : 補充一下當年Babe Ruth的神蹟 全壘打54支 : 聯盟第二名是他的隊友Gehrig 27支 只有他的一半 : 不過這還不是最誇張的一年 1926年Bab ...

史上世界大賽三響砲

Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2011-10-24T01:52
※ 引述《rbgspydm (彭彭)》之銘言: : 看到klarc版友推文, 補充一下當年Babe Ruth的神蹟 全壘打54支 聯盟第二名是他的隊友Gehrig 27支 只有他的一半 不過這還不是最誇張的一年 1926年Babe Ruth單季47支HR 第二名的只有19支 不到他的一半 (還有1920年B ...

史上世界大賽三響砲

Tracy avatar
By Tracy
at 2011-10-24T00:17
※ 引述《Valter (V)》之銘言: : 標題: [閒聊] 史上世界大賽三響砲 : 時間: Sun Oct 23 13:40:27 2011 : 1928 : : NYY at STL G4 : : AB R H RBI BB SO AVG OPS : Ruth ...