老外整理的太空人以外作弊偷暗號串 - 棒球

Edith avatar
By Edith
at 2021-06-17T11:05

Table of Contents

主要情報來源: MLB作家/分析師 Ryan Spaeder

Everything that I am about to say was verified by more than one player. I do
not mean to burn anyone, and I love baseball... I've just had enough of this
bullshit.
以下所有要接露的都被超過一位球員證實過

The Royals were the first team with a full analytics and video department
close by their dugout, doing so in 2015, their World Series Championship
year. How they used it, I do not know.
皇家隊是最早把影片分析部門設在球員休息室附近的球隊,在2015年,那年他們奪冠
目前還不確定他們怎麼利用那部門
I want to note that one player who played for the Royals ins 2016, just
texted me saying that "every team had the same video room by then."
一名2016待在皇家的球員說2016時所有球隊都有同樣的影片室了


The Yankees had cameras in left, center, and right, all pointing at the
pitcher's glove, rather than the catcher, to pick up his grip.
洋基隊有攝影機在左中右外野,不是對準捕手,而是對準投手的手套來抓他握的球路。
Aaron Judge 2017-18 home .312/.440/.725;road - .256/.404/.531

The Dodgers had an employee who was caught setting up cameras at Minute Maid
Park wearing an MLB Polo Shirt, when he should have been wearing a Dodgers
Polo, during the 2017 World Series.
2017年世界大賽時 一位道奇員工被抓到在太空人主場設立攝影機
他原本應穿道奇polo衫的 不過他當下穿MLB polo衫

This one hurts to say... my favorite player ever... "Chase Utley was the
biggest cheater of all-time."
作者最愛的球員Chase Utley被說是史上作弊最嚴重的球員
(他目前沒附上如何作弊)

As insane as this sounds, I've heard this from multiple players, Adrian
Beltre had a buddy with binoculars in dead center who would wave a beater
(undershirt) if he was getting something off speed in 2017.
多名球員說2017年有人在中外野拿望遠鏡 如果Adrian Beltre對到變化球他會揮衣服
Beltre 2017 home - .362/.440/.586; road - .271/.333/.489

The Astros "sign stealing" method all came from Beltran, New York and Texas.
太空人偷暗號的方法皆從Beltran,紐約,德州習得

The Dbacks used humidor balls when pitching and non-humidor balls when
batting at home — I do not have a time frame on this, but I’m confident it
happened.
響尾蛇隊主場投球時用加濕球 打擊時用沒加濕過的球
作者沒有確切的時間不過確定有發生過

From a player who asks to remain nameless: “Don't forget the Twins at the
Metrodome — would open right field doors creating suction when Twins batted
then close them when opponents hit!”
匿名球員透漏雙城隊打擊時會把右外野的門打開提供吸力 客隊打擊時會把門關上

Everything Kratzie already said about the Rockies...
Kratzie 之前提到洛磯做的事
#1Wg5CQ4r(Baseball)
: 2018年Kratz效力的密爾瓦基釀酒人在分區系列賽遇上洛磯,他說:「他們在第2戰(譯注
: ,應有口誤,實為第1戰)第9局攻下2分,他們是用按摩槍敲打金屬板凳,他們是透過電視
: 做一樣的事情。如果你以為沒有其他人做一樣的事情,那你就錯了。或許太空人做得太超
: 過了一點,持續了太久了一點,也許是因為他們贏得世界大賽冠軍,所以大家都很不爽,
: 但我知道那個球季有其他2支國聯球隊在做一樣的事。」


還給了一串球隊名
MIA, CIN, DET, CHW, COL, OAK, WSH, NYY, CLE, NYM, BOS, HOU, SFG, SEA, LAD
說明天會再補上其他內容


Reddit串鄉民補充:
(以下皆沒來源 參考就好)

I heard there was a man cultivating mass in center field who was sending some
very suspicious signals to Utley. There is video of them sending private
letters back and forth that may be worth looking into.
聽說過中外野種草的有給Utley一些暗號

"In 2010, the Royals' analytics department realized that there was a high
degree of likelihood that the Mets' championship window would begin to open
at roughly the same time as Kansas City's.
In response, the team began numerous trade discussions with New York, none of
which were meant to lead to a player exchange, but rather, to seed the idea
that manager Jerry Manuel needed to be replaced, and the best candidate would
be former Astros and Angels manager Terry Collins, then coaching for Japan's
Orix Buffaloes.
The Royals had previously identified Collins as a trusting manager, and one
who was likely to allow pitchers a longer leash, especially in high-stakes
playoff scenarios."
2010年皇家隊分析部門發現皇家隊和大都會隊有機會奪冠的時間差不多
所以他們和紐約提許多交易 都不是針對球員 而是讓大都會認為他們的教練Jerry Manuel
需要被換掉 而最好的人選是當時執教歐力士的Terry Collins
皇家認為Collins屬於在季後賽關鍵時刻會傾向於把先發留在場上的教練

The Beltre one straight up doesn't even make sense. Where in dead center
would this friend stand? The rest of it is mostly believable, but
unsubstantiated. I'll wait until a bigger reporter/mlb investigation is
launched before fully believing anything.
Beltre那個很奇怪 他朋友要站中外野哪裡
https://i.imgur.com/CK4B89T.jpeg

來源:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/o18we7/ryan_m_spaeder_thread_unloading_on_other_teams/
https://twitter.com/theaceofspaeder/status/1405039938769412096

心得:我要看到血流成河.jpg

--
Tags: 棒球

All Comments

Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2021-06-18T07:01
one outs早就演過了(?
Emma avatar
By Emma
at 2021-06-19T02:56
有個貝爾川打成貝爾崔了
Necoo avatar
By Necoo
at 2021-06-19T22:52
作弊大檸檬
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2021-06-20T18:47
想當初雙貝爾都打得不錯 沒想到....
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2021-06-21T14:42
各隊各顯神通 笑死 已經不是在打棒球ㄌ
Kyle avatar
By Kyle
at 2021-06-22T10:38
等第 中外野那個wwwww
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2021-06-23T06:33
嘔嘔嘔
Lauren avatar
By Lauren
at 2021-06-24T02:29
這咖不過只是個小丑
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2021-06-24T22:24
原來是老千聯盟
Blanche avatar
By Blanche
at 2021-06-25T18:20
野雞消息
Puput avatar
By Puput
at 2021-06-26T14:15
Utley 會吉嗎說他是作弊仔但啥都沒提供
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2021-06-27T10:10
Manfred: 說再多我都聽不見啦
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2021-06-28T06:06
響尾蛇換球那個最難理解吧,除非裁判也是一夥的因為球是放在裁判球袋的,不可能換局就換球吧
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2021-06-29T02:01
皇家那個還好吧 影片分析部門很正常啊交易操作也不是作弊
Selena avatar
By Selena
at 2021-06-29T21:57
好像鬥法大賽
Isla avatar
By Isla
at 2021-06-30T17:52
加濕球、作弊球場…超智遊戲領先全球
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2021-07-01T13:48
難怪聯盟處罰太鼓人最後輕輕放下,真的殺下去會血流成河
Enid avatar
By Enid
at 2021-07-02T09:43
這些其實都還沒打到痛點啦,關鍵還是在於資訊在比賽中從轉播室被傳遞到球場上,但是還特意提及轉播室離dugout很近,就是覺得這些資訊傳遞很容易發生
Una avatar
By Una
at 2021-07-03T05:38
原來道奇洋基都是作弊仔
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2021-07-04T01:34
鬥法
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2021-07-04T21:29
為了贏 無所不用其極
Andy avatar
By Andy
at 2021-07-05T17:25
提供吸力XD 這真是超級主場優勢
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2021-07-06T13:20
開關門滿猛的欸算主場優勢嗎XD
Cara avatar
By Cara
at 2021-07-07T09:16
美國中忍考試,作弊沒被抓到就不叫作弊
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2021-07-08T05:11
雙城這幾年這麼會幹HR 原來是學會吸星大法
Doris avatar
By Doris
at 2021-07-09T01:06
#超智遊戲
William avatar
By William
at 2021-07-09T21:02
吸星大法
Edwina avatar
By Edwina
at 2021-07-10T16:57
我比較好奇水手如果有參加怎麼戰績還.....
Daniel avatar
By Daniel
at 2021-07-11T12:53
可憐太空人被罵翻 結果全聯盟都在作弊
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2021-07-12T08:48
你各位要聰明打球啊
Noah avatar
By Noah
at 2021-07-13T04:44
水兵是制服組腦殘吧 做的交易都莫名其妙
Harry avatar
By Harry
at 2021-07-13T22:37
然後看到提主客場數據也別想這麼多,那都在正常範圍而已沒辦法當作弊證據,只是當初旁邊名字掛Altuve的時候這樣說會是在幫他洗白呵呵
Kyle avatar
By Kyle
at 2021-07-14T18:33
雙城那個好猛 吸球大法耶 超級主場優勢
Hedda avatar
By Hedda
at 2021-07-15T14:28
洋基 印地安人 紅襪 道奇 國民 都是近年強隊 難怪只抓太空人 這拉下去一大串 沒人要看MLB了吧
Tracy avatar
By Tracy
at 2021-07-16T10:23
欸太空人可憐的其實是,明明一樣被抓出來的還有紅襪,太空人投手有的還會被激進的人說知情不報同罪,然後嘴作弊沒人提紅襪球員,前紅襪投手還能當抗鼓英雄。
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2021-07-17T06:19
說日本巨人隊在東京巨蛋主場開空調我還比較信
Lauren avatar
By Lauren
at 2021-07-18T02:14
看來16小熊有夠純!
Anthony avatar
By Anthony
at 2021-07-18T22:10
開門吸球是什麼概念xd
Erin avatar
By Erin
at 2021-07-19T18:05
只要不合規定早該抓了,商業考量才造成這可笑的局面然後太空人也不可憐,他就一堆闖紅燈裡面被抓的那一個最後也輕輕放下啊
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2021-07-20T14:01
原來不只作弊襪 作弊人 還有作弊基XDDD
Jacob avatar
By Jacob
at 2021-07-21T09:56
傳說有些會把內野弄的跟沼澤一樣,主場才知乾的地方在哪
David avatar
By David
at 2021-07-22T05:51
西索打棒球領先全球
Jake avatar
By Jake
at 2021-07-23T01:47
先說,影片分析部門確實每一個球隊都擁有,當初2018NHK幫
Lucy avatar
By Lucy
at 2021-07-23T21:42
大谷拍的紀錄片中,有特別提到在打擊完,他會到影片室看自
Una avatar
By Una
at 2021-07-24T17:38
己剛剛的揮棒動作有沒有問題
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2021-07-25T13:33
看起來真的很多隊作弊欸
Kama avatar
By Kama
at 2021-07-26T09:29
完全無法想像怎麼吸球 超大型吸塵器嗎==
Eden avatar
By Eden
at 2021-07-27T05:24
但是之後太空人作弊被爆出來後,記得聯盟就禁止球員局間
Madame avatar
By Madame
at 2021-07-28T01:20
觀望
John avatar
By John
at 2021-07-28T21:15
今年好像又可以比賽中看片了
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2021-07-29T17:10
跑到影片室,改成待在板凳區看平板(無法通訊)喔喔 又改回來了嗎?
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2021-07-30T13:06
不過之前比賽中看影片是沒問題,只是記得是禁止球員離開
Oscar avatar
By Oscar
at 2021-07-31T09:01
dugout去分析室看
Edith avatar
By Edith
at 2021-08-01T04:57
皇家通過預測兩隊有機會奪冠的時間點差不多,因而把大都會教練搞掉那是怎麼回事?
Poppy avatar
By Poppy
at 2021-08-02T00:52
原來是中忍考試啊......
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2021-08-02T20:48
水太深
Audriana avatar
By Audriana
at 2021-08-03T16:43
沒有巨人的空調嗎 喔那是日職XD
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2021-08-04T12:38
沒有我大光芒
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2021-08-05T08:34
我記得是比賽間就不能把那些資訊帶進場啦,不確定是太空人之後還是基襪
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2021-08-06T04:29
是啊 我指的影片是對戰投手的球種分析、動作等等,這賽前
Callum avatar
By Callum
at 2021-08-07T00:25
就可以帶進場了
Caitlin avatar
By Caitlin
at 2021-08-07T20:20
不過這情報來源有幾個方法也很難說是作弊吧?或是說規則也沒禁止
Oliver avatar
By Oliver
at 2021-08-08T16:16
你帶即時資訊進來就很容易搞東搞西啦,所以才很乾脆的禁止這些,不然像有人辯自己打去回放室只是問問剛剛那球好球壞球還啥的
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2021-08-09T12:11
to ZengPig:然後多數人只關注太空人被輕輕放下,不相信太空人是闖紅燈的其中一個而已
Valerie avatar
By Valerie
at 2021-08-10T08:06
就是把球吹出去的意思 雙城好屌
Quanna avatar
By Quanna
at 2021-08-11T04:02
看來沒一隻球隊沒放攝影機了吧
Edith avatar
By Edith
at 2021-08-11T23:57
照練盟規定,dugout的電子設備是不能有通訊功能的,所以
Barb Cronin avatar
By Barb Cronin
at 2021-08-12T19:53
正常來說是不會有打去回放室的情形出現
Kristin avatar
By Kristin
at 2021-08-13T15:48
是要怎麼吸? 特別要針對右外野深遠落地安打?
Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2021-08-14T11:44
這用到的頻率跟實際效果都滿令人存疑的吧
Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2021-08-15T07:39
放攝影機聯盟是准許的,但記得要上報聯盟(這部分我不確定)
Yedda avatar
By Yedda
at 2021-08-16T03:34
但不知道是其他隊球迷太多還怎樣 都視而不見 反而一直砲太空人XD
Connor avatar
By Connor
at 2021-08-16T23:30
其實空調係可以搞的東西很多啦 巨蛋限定
Connor avatar
By Connor
at 2021-08-17T19:25
不過對準那個部分聯盟就沒有規定了
Eartha avatar
By Eartha
at 2021-08-18T15:21
作弊大聯盟
Agnes avatar
By Agnes
at 2021-08-19T11:16
@e2167471 所以我才對這些爆料存疑,有些方式其實效果
James avatar
By James
at 2021-08-20T07:12
沒太明顯的幫助
Catherine avatar
By Catherine
at 2021-08-21T03:07
吸力那個最好笑
Genevieve avatar
By Genevieve
at 2021-08-21T23:03
某樓別偷渡作弊人,偷數據然後分析,跟偷完透過設備比賽時直接傳給球員是不一樣的
Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2021-08-22T18:58
可憐 太空人就是衰 其他隊也有同樣嫌疑沒被追殺
Sierra Rose avatar
By Sierra Rose
at 2021-08-23T14:53
唯一作弊作到被聯盟處罰的隊伍還有人護航抱屈wwww 笑死喔 對不起 唯二 不是唯一
Ula avatar
By Ula
at 2021-08-24T10:49
主要是敲垃圾桶太...
David avatar
By David
at 2021-08-25T06:44
真是令人不齒,台灣人18歲考學測統測都知道不該作弊
Jessica avatar
By Jessica
at 2021-08-26T02:40
這些19歲後上MLB的,還有什麼理由作弊吃藥作弊偷看?
Oscar avatar
By Oscar
at 2021-08-26T22:35
太空人比較麻煩的是有實質證據(影片),證據遠大於猜測
Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2021-08-27T18:31
太鼓就太好抓 一旦改傳遞方式 沒爆料抓不到的
Brianna avatar
By Brianna
at 2021-08-28T14:26
我也是相信不只太鼓人作弊啦,但是聯盟也不敢再查下去
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2021-08-29T10:21
國民?該不會2019…
Ula avatar
By Ula
at 2021-08-30T06:17
渡久地東亞:?
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2021-08-31T02:12
看大谷打爆作弊聯盟
Odelette avatar
By Odelette
at 2021-08-31T22:08
提供吸力那個有沒有人可以解釋一下是怎麼回事,真的會有影響嗎?
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2021-09-01T18:03
證據也是下去調查才有的阿
Catherine avatar
By Catherine
at 2021-09-02T13:59
吸力應該是風的關係吧,把門打開形成風道
Odelette avatar
By Odelette
at 2021-09-03T09:54
aotom 洋基當初被抓違反規則就是違規使用dugout phone
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2021-09-04T05:49
這爆料有證據嗎?有些作弊的方法跟本匪夷所思,我怎麼覺得是鼓迷要拉全聯盟下水而已
Mia avatar
By Mia
at 2021-09-05T01:45
當時的說法是打去回放室問前一球是好壞球,至於信不信看個人啦
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2021-09-05T21:40
匪夷所思的是到現在還有人覺得只有檯面上被抓出來的有作弊
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2021-09-06T17:36
吸球就球場內外壓力不一樣
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2021-09-07T13:31
每次看到Joe Kelly就想賞巴掌啊
Ursula avatar
By Ursula
at 2021-09-08T09:27
合理懷疑大聯盟都看過超智遊戲
Jacky avatar
By Jacky
at 2021-09-09T05:22
一大串肉粽欸
Olivia avatar
By Olivia
at 2021-09-10T01:17
看好了日職 大聯盟示範什麼才是細膩
Michael avatar
By Michael
at 2021-09-10T21:13
雙城那個的原理是什麼?
Ophelia avatar
By Ophelia
at 2021-09-11T17:08
很多人是不是不知道雙城以前的球場是巨蛋 開關門當然會有差
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2021-09-12T13:04
內文提到的是metrodome 不是現在的target field
Todd Johnson avatar
By Todd Johnson
at 2021-09-13T08:59
我知道dugout phone是唯一的漏洞XD
Ethan avatar
By Ethan
at 2021-09-14T04:55
我相信各球隊一定有各種遊走規則邊緣的方法,但是有幾分證據說幾分話
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2021-09-15T00:50
吸球那個會想到羽球賽的時候也會利用空調來達到優勢
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2021-09-15T20:46
雙城用巨蛋當球場已經是2009之前的事了
Carolina Franco avatar
By Carolina Franco
at 2021-09-16T16:41
向上面大家討論的開關門,這算違反規則的作弊嗎?
Donna avatar
By Donna
at 2021-09-17T12:36
開關門你要怎麼舉證是作弊 XD
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2021-09-18T08:32
這樣看來 太空人一點都不壞 錯只錯在 別隊還在殺豬公我太空人偷暗號已經上太空 領先業界的原罪
Mason avatar
By Mason
at 2021-09-19T04:27
是啊XD 所以這串看下來,對於那些資訊我還是保持懷疑我是回覆rbull
Mason avatar
By Mason
at 2021-09-20T00:23
這就是不知道哪來的野雞消息帶風向結果一堆人被帶走
Hardy avatar
By Hardy
at 2021-09-20T20:18
如果這些消息多數真的來自Ryan Spaeder,可能還可以參考匿名鄉民寫的那部分倒是真的看看就好 XD
Zanna avatar
By Zanna
at 2021-09-21T16:14
不好說喔,太空人的作弊技術還不見得是好的那邊
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2021-09-22T12:09
Beltre那個也是很怪,揮衣服的如果是自家staff,真的只會幫
Dorothy avatar
By Dorothy
at 2021-09-23T08:04
其實有些不是全新的料了,還記不記得當初在說Beltran涉入多深的時候,Beltran還是還是從外面帶更先進技術進去的
Anthony avatar
By Anthony
at 2021-09-24T04:00
一個人,而不是大部分自家打者打暗號?
Oliver avatar
By Oliver
at 2021-09-24T23:55
如果是他朋友,能在短時間分析對手暗號也是不簡單
Regina avatar
By Regina
at 2021-09-25T19:51
提供吸力是什麼場地魔法卡嗎xDDDD
Rae avatar
By Rae
at 2021-09-26T15:46
偷暗號本身沒有違反規則,但是用電子設備偷並傳遞到dugout以新規定來看才會違反規則
Andrew avatar
By Andrew
at 2021-09-27T11:42
Beltran加入太空人後曾討論可以怎樣改進偷暗號系統以及怎麼傳達給打者,他也是唯一在調查裡被提出名字的球員
Jacob avatar
By Jacob
at 2021-09-28T07:37
打開門是對流嗎?哈
Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2021-09-29T03:32
以聯盟對規則的制定,他們比較在意識不是即時傳遞*是不是
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2021-09-29T23:28
東京巨蛋會在客隊時關掉空調唷!啾咪
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2021-09-30T19:23
不違規的偷暗號不就現場肉眼偷給你看了,站觀眾席的小幫手有辦法分析應該是不至於無法想像
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2021-10-01T15:19
所以我猜Beltran當初想改進的部分應該就是如何有效傳遞到dugout
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2021-10-02T11:14
所以我還滿佩服觀眾席的小幫手XD 不過效率我覺得頗差就是
Susan avatar
By Susan
at 2021-10-03T07:10
不然為何會有隊伍不管怎樣都想改成電子偷暗號的方式?
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2021-10-04T03:05
MLB主審換球很頻繁 所以特定局用特定球應該可行
Andy avatar
By Andy
at 2021-10-04T23:00
開門會有吸力?差很多嗎
Steve avatar
By Steve
at 2021-10-05T18:56
怎麼覺得有些很唬爛
William avatar
By William
at 2021-10-06T14:51
要有證據阿不是數據寫一下就好了,如果只看主客成績差異那洛磯不就都在作弊
Kama avatar
By Kama
at 2021-10-07T10:47
哪裡來的野雞帳號 空穴來風

今日 Jacob deGrom

Liam avatar
By Liam
at 2021-06-17T11:01
3IP 0H 0R 0ER 0BB 8K ERA 0.54 WHIP 0.51 NP 51(36-15) 1AB 0R 1H 0HR 1RBI 0BB 0SO 現今大聯盟最強投在上次先發右前臂緊繃後 再次回歸投手丘 本日投了三局的完全比賽就豪奪8K 且在打擊時擊出一支適時安打 但因右肩酸痛(right ...

這誰

Yedda avatar
By Yedda
at 2021-06-17T10:59
剛剛棒球板一篇廢文說一個歌手像大谷 不像就算了 然後 這誰? - ...

Christian Arroyo

Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2021-06-17T10:51
紅襪隊在客場出戰亞特蘭大勇士隊 7局上 Cora 換上 Arroyo 代打 結果轟出紅襪隊本季第一支滿貫砲 一口氣變成 10:7 領先勇士隊 不愧是宇宙襪 - ...

SPC-MLB》有影才敢大聲!阿土伯創大聯盟

Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2021-06-17T10:48
新聞來源:自由 新聞標題:SPC-MLB》有影才敢大聲!阿土伯創大聯盟史上首見紀錄(影音) 新聞內容: 〔體育中心/綜合報導〕31歲的前美聯MVP、太空人二壘手艾圖維(Jose Altuve)今天締 造大聯盟史上首見紀錄,成為第一位前一場敲再見滿貫砲、隔場又敲先馳得點全壘打的球 員。 艾圖維昨天對上遊騎 ...

大谷翔平會唱歌嗎?

Belly avatar
By Belly
at 2021-06-17T10:47
說到大谷會不會唱歌 就想到之前在車上跟隊友一起唱Despacito https://twitter.com/angelsduo27/status/1044333160761192448?s=21 所以說大谷的天賦到底多高 - ...