冠軍數跟連霸是不是假議題??? - NBA

By Joseph
at 2020-10-20T21:49
at 2020-10-20T21:49
Table of Contents
個人覺得連霸是一項很高的成就
有其歷史意義
但在追逐Goat的過程中有點被過度放大
最後還是應該回歸冠軍跟FMVP、MVP數量的比較
LBJ跟Jordan現階段的差距
跟三連霸、亞軍數、奪冠率等等都沒有關係
也不能純拿隊友跟對手的強弱來說有沒有超越
兩人的差距就是很簡單的二冠二Fmvp
LBJ拿到了,他就有機會跟Jordan相提並論
大家之所以這麼重視三連霸
是因為現任的Goat喬丹拿了六個冠軍
而這六個冠軍剛好是兩次三連霸
才會有三連霸很重要的錯覺
事實上重要的是三座冠軍本身
連續拿或分開拿,跟最後累積的冠軍數量比起來相對沒那麼重要
最好的例子就是大歐跟TD
大歐有歷史前十裡面除了喬丹外唯一的三連霸
(羅素爺爺的八連霸太古老,先不討論)
而TD甚至連二連霸都沒有達成過
但在大多數的歷史排名裡面,TD還是以最後的五冠三FMVP壓過大歐的四冠三FMVP
或者反過來說
假設喬丹的六冠不是兩次三連霸,而是三次二連霸
他的Goat的地位就會有所動搖嗎?
我是不這麼認為
要是LBJ在退休前能再拿到二冠二FMVP
那誰是Goat這個問題是真的很值得討論
要是LBJ拿到四萬一萬一萬,但最終以五冠五FMVP坐收
我猜Goat的風向會更平均一點
但喬丹最後還是會勝出
--
有其歷史意義
但在追逐Goat的過程中有點被過度放大
最後還是應該回歸冠軍跟FMVP、MVP數量的比較
LBJ跟Jordan現階段的差距
跟三連霸、亞軍數、奪冠率等等都沒有關係
也不能純拿隊友跟對手的強弱來說有沒有超越
兩人的差距就是很簡單的二冠二Fmvp
LBJ拿到了,他就有機會跟Jordan相提並論
大家之所以這麼重視三連霸
是因為現任的Goat喬丹拿了六個冠軍
而這六個冠軍剛好是兩次三連霸
才會有三連霸很重要的錯覺
事實上重要的是三座冠軍本身
連續拿或分開拿,跟最後累積的冠軍數量比起來相對沒那麼重要
最好的例子就是大歐跟TD
大歐有歷史前十裡面除了喬丹外唯一的三連霸
(羅素爺爺的八連霸太古老,先不討論)
而TD甚至連二連霸都沒有達成過
但在大多數的歷史排名裡面,TD還是以最後的五冠三FMVP壓過大歐的四冠三FMVP
或者反過來說
假設喬丹的六冠不是兩次三連霸,而是三次二連霸
他的Goat的地位就會有所動搖嗎?
我是不這麼認為
要是LBJ在退休前能再拿到二冠二FMVP
那誰是Goat這個問題是真的很值得討論
要是LBJ拿到四萬一萬一萬,但最終以五冠五FMVP坐收
我猜Goat的風向會更平均一點
但喬丹最後還是會勝出
--
Tags:
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All Comments

By Todd Johnson
at 2020-10-22T23:50
at 2020-10-22T23:50

By Jessica
at 2020-10-27T04:42
at 2020-10-27T04:42

By Ivy
at 2020-10-27T17:48
at 2020-10-27T17:48

By Jacky
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By Caroline
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By Ethan
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By Carolina Franco
at 2020-11-07T03:06
at 2020-11-07T03:06

By Iris
at 2020-11-11T00:28
at 2020-11-11T00:28
麼贏過指環王?

By Lucy
at 2020-11-11T22:20
at 2020-11-11T22:20
笑了很久,他是成就累積真的碾壓其他PF才是無庸置
疑的第一,沒三連霸的球隊不能被稱為王朝,還在那
邊連霸是假議題?我看是太久沒球隊三連霸,想淡化
這個議題吧!如果湖人接下來三連霸姆迷還不吹上天

By Zenobia
at 2020-11-14T06:18
at 2020-11-14T06:18

By Susan
at 2020-11-18T14:54
at 2020-11-18T14:54

By Frederica
at 2020-11-21T21:49
at 2020-11-21T21:49
假議題的吧呵

By Frederica
at 2020-11-23T13:51
at 2020-11-23T13:51

By Mason
at 2020-11-25T14:18
at 2020-11-25T14:18
但是你看這版有幾個人同意姆斯輸賈霸?

By Audriana
at 2020-11-26T21:25
at 2020-11-26T21:25
?17勇季後賽每一輪都碾壓奪冠,18勇西區每一輪都有
輸,馬刺鵜鶘都贏一場,火箭西決把它逼到搶7,只有
總冠橫掃最輕鬆

By Noah
at 2020-11-30T16:02
at 2020-11-30T16:02
後又忽略賈霸跳過賈霸 雙重標準 棒棒

By Rachel
at 2020-11-30T20:25
at 2020-11-30T20:25

By George
at 2020-12-02T09:46
at 2020-12-02T09:46

By Agatha
at 2020-12-04T11:53
at 2020-12-04T11:53

By Joseph
at 2020-12-06T16:00
at 2020-12-06T16:00
馬刺五年三冠 勇士五年三冠二亞 就不算王朝?

By Dinah
at 2020-12-08T22:21
at 2020-12-08T22:21

By Tracy
at 2020-12-11T13:23
at 2020-12-11T13:23

By Charlie
at 2020-12-14T00:53
at 2020-12-14T00:53
方面贏在哪 贏在你的幻想裡?

By Mason
at 2020-12-17T20:48
at 2020-12-17T20:48
at,改成前四冠分散拿,巫師時期再二連霸,照樣能被
吹爆

By Harry
at 2020-12-21T07:40
at 2020-12-21T07:40
數據的也都假議題啊,最後數數量就好

By Mia
at 2020-12-23T13:06
at 2020-12-23T13:06
你,陣容也可能因薪資無法維持,甚至被傷病拖累,
王朝不是隨便叫叫的

By John
at 2020-12-26T07:29
at 2020-12-26T07:29
不能贏的

By Kelly
at 2020-12-28T21:52
at 2020-12-28T21:52

By Margaret
at 2020-12-30T07:48
at 2020-12-30T07:48

By Doris
at 2021-01-02T11:05
at 2021-01-02T11:05

By Edith
at 2021-01-07T10:13
at 2021-01-07T10:13

By Isla
at 2021-01-11T18:19
at 2021-01-11T18:19

By Tristan Cohan
at 2021-01-13T03:31
at 2021-01-13T03:31

By Jacob
at 2021-01-14T18:40
at 2021-01-14T18:40

By Sierra Rose
at 2021-01-18T23:21
at 2021-01-18T23:21

By Susan
at 2021-01-22T08:00
at 2021-01-22T08:00

By Gary
at 2021-01-25T06:14
at 2021-01-25T06:14

By Elizabeth
at 2021-01-26T15:28
at 2021-01-26T15:28

By Rae
at 2021-01-27T00:51
at 2021-01-27T00:51

By Ursula
at 2021-01-29T04:41
at 2021-01-29T04:41

By Emily
at 2021-01-30T15:14
at 2021-01-30T15:14

By Rachel
at 2021-02-04T10:06
at 2021-02-04T10:06

By Cara
at 2021-02-05T17:04
at 2021-02-05T17:04

By Ingrid
at 2021-02-07T17:27
at 2021-02-07T17:27
MJ也就是運氣好拿個6冠6FMVP而已 兩個三連霸
甚麼goat 根本就是史上運氣最好的男人

By Xanthe
at 2021-02-07T22:47
at 2021-02-07T22:47
過他是goat
就算不是goat也可以說是歷史第二吧

By Erin
at 2021-02-12T11:36
at 2021-02-12T11:36

By Olive
at 2021-02-14T12:16
at 2021-02-14T12:16
嗎?

By Elvira
at 2021-02-17T02:35
at 2021-02-17T02:35

By Ophelia
at 2021-02-20T11:11
at 2021-02-20T11:11

By Lauren
at 2021-02-25T01:21
at 2021-02-25T01:21
球只是小朋友遊戲

By Audriana
at 2021-02-28T05:23
at 2021-02-28T05:23
的數據 已經很強了 你叫mj來看看 射死MJ

By Noah
at 2021-03-04T23:11
at 2021-03-04T23:11

By Sierra Rose
at 2021-03-09T08:59
at 2021-03-09T08:59
我的知識都是從版上前輩來的啊
我覺得蠻有道理的 現代籃球這麼強

By Anonymous
at 2021-03-13T15:53
at 2021-03-13T15:53

By Thomas
at 2021-03-15T02:40
at 2021-03-15T02:40
甚麼

By Brianna
at 2021-03-15T21:05
at 2021-03-15T21:05
真理就是越辯越明 姆斯4>MJ6
看不懂4>6的是忘了加冠詞而已 加了就很清楚了

By Joseph
at 2021-03-20T04:49
at 2021-03-20T04:49
真勇者

By Yuri
at 2021-03-20T13:19
at 2021-03-20T13:19
代只有mj的公牛跟mj退休後的歐拉火箭有過冠軍啊

By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2021-03-24T08:48
at 2021-03-24T08:48
到他吧

By Lauren
at 2021-03-26T22:43
at 2021-03-26T22:43

By Ida
at 2021-03-27T05:37
at 2021-03-27T05:37
我相信版主很公正的 我的理論都是根據前輩來的
要桶會有一大票前輩跟我一起也

By David
at 2021-03-31T17:23
at 2021-03-31T17:23

By Hedy
at 2021-04-02T01:45
at 2021-04-02T01:45

By Christine
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By Puput
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By Megan
at 2021-04-10T14:56
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By Elizabeth
at 2021-04-14T02:09
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連霸輸歐肥 mj 累積數據輸賈霸 統治 東區是有的但沒
有統治聯盟啊

By Ida
at 2021-04-16T02:17
at 2021-04-16T02:17
球,跟方蓋比出勤,只要拿贏的數據比要怎麼輸

By Emily
at 2021-04-16T07:05
at 2021-04-16T07:05

By Irma
at 2021-04-16T14:47
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By Eartha
at 2021-04-16T18:56
at 2021-04-16T18:56
累積數據屌打任何人。還想田忌賽馬啊?

By Charlotte
at 2021-04-19T16:24
at 2021-04-19T16:24
現在在反串大概力道不夠,可惜你過往推文是大詹酸,
這個轉向太硬拗,呵呵

By Harry
at 2021-04-22T12:55
at 2021-04-22T12:55
這傢伙太過分了前輩 誰要跟我一起去留言捍衛姆斯

By Hamiltion
at 2021-04-26T09:08
at 2021-04-26T09:08

By Zenobia
at 2021-04-28T00:04
at 2021-04-28T00:04
在版上我才懂姆斯的偉大 被感召了

By Poppy
at 2021-04-29T12:27
at 2021-04-29T12:27

By Christine
at 2021-05-01T22:24
at 2021-05-01T22:24

By Mason
at 2021-05-02T16:22
at 2021-05-02T16:22

By Todd Johnson
at 2021-05-05T21:40
at 2021-05-05T21:40
#1VZdmmrP
是說要反串不先把你發的文刪掉嗎

By Gilbert
at 2021-05-07T21:45
at 2021-05-07T21:45
山羊就是賈霸,當然比聯盟造神的話山羊就是喬丹

By John
at 2021-05-12T13:57
at 2021-05-12T13:57

By Sandy
at 2021-05-15T22:14
at 2021-05-15T22:14
沒人提,笑死

By Quintina
at 2021-05-16T02:34
at 2021-05-16T02:34
位打折 不然Kobe 3連霸又2連霸 怎麼還會排在TD後面

By Jessica
at 2021-05-19T20:19
at 2021-05-19T20:19

By Anthony
at 2021-05-22T10:59
at 2021-05-22T10:59

By Mia
at 2021-05-24T21:17
at 2021-05-24T21:17

By Tristan Cohan
at 2021-05-29T19:46
at 2021-05-29T19:46

By Elvira
at 2021-05-30T15:27
at 2021-05-30T15:27

By Quintina
at 2021-05-31T11:51
at 2021-05-31T11:51

By Daph Bay
at 2021-06-01T11:01
at 2021-06-01T11:01

By John
at 2021-06-03T11:18
at 2021-06-03T11:18

By Yedda
at 2021-06-05T12:10
at 2021-06-05T12:10

By Jacob
at 2021-06-09T01:09
at 2021-06-09T01:09
你說散開來拿冠的為何不能連霸 同樣的 連霸的也只在
顛峰期拿冠啊

By Lydia
at 2021-06-09T15:06
at 2021-06-09T15:06
但不喜歡酸民為了說服誰是GOAT去貶低另一個球員
GOAT存在自己心中就好幹嘛一定要強迫別人接受
難道為了讓全世界都認同你的女神 要一直去說另一個
人很醜或審美觀有問題?

By Callum
at 2021-06-10T18:25
at 2021-06-10T18:25
以太閒了

By Aaliyah
at 2021-06-13T02:15
at 2021-06-13T02:15
有可以吹捧的事跡 比如時隔多年又拿冠、在不同隊伍
皆能奪冠 2冠+2fmvp的差距夠大了 其他的等打平再說

By Jessica
at 2021-06-17T18:55
at 2021-06-17T18:55

By Erin
at 2021-06-21T18:25
at 2021-06-21T18:25

By Franklin
at 2021-06-25T10:42
at 2021-06-25T10:42
靠貶低別人成就就好

By Hedy
at 2021-06-27T02:09
at 2021-06-27T02:09

By David
at 2021-06-28T09:17
at 2021-06-28T09:17
?自己想想熱火詹第一冠穩穩吃掉雷霆3少,第二冠差
點翻車靠雷槍3分救回來,下一年老人馬刺在西區各種
血戰搶6搶7,總冠把熱火當孩子打4-1氣走詹皇,冠軍
隊就是大家頭號箭靶,一年比一年難

By Daniel
at 2021-06-29T20:09
at 2021-06-29T20:09
連霸怎麼沒有高TD一級

By Gary
at 2021-07-01T04:47
at 2021-07-01T04:47
o'niel的原因是他多1冠1mvp 個人獎項應該也是小贏

By Tracy
at 2021-07-02T16:40
at 2021-07-02T16:40
來出發點是想討論還是純粹想酸

By Jessica
at 2021-07-03T06:46
at 2021-07-03T06:46

By Linda
at 2021-07-05T08:44
at 2021-07-05T08:44
?

By Gary
at 2021-07-06T01:11
at 2021-07-06T01:11

By Jacky
at 2021-07-06T07:21
at 2021-07-06T07:21
的人物..

By Hedwig
at 2021-07-06T12:17
at 2021-07-06T12:17

By Daniel
at 2021-07-10T18:01
at 2021-07-10T18:01

By Zanna
at 2021-07-12T04:49
at 2021-07-12T04:49
和當時的榮譽和他們生涯軌跡以及達成的傳奇性嘛 要
不巔峰大鳥魔術以現代的眼光看那麼爛 何德何能被排
在Kobe前面

By Yuri
at 2021-07-15T18:03
at 2021-07-15T18:03
如果抱來的大腿有連霸的實力 就不會丟下隊友轉隊

By Jake
at 2021-07-17T11:20
at 2021-07-17T11:20

By Olive
at 2021-07-17T22:38
at 2021-07-17T22:38
三次

By Audriana
at 2021-07-21T17:01
at 2021-07-21T17:01
隊核心啊

By Madame
at 2021-07-24T17:32
at 2021-07-24T17:32

By Odelette
at 2021-07-25T23:56
at 2021-07-25T23:56

By Michael
at 2021-07-27T13:28
at 2021-07-27T13:28

By Ula
at 2021-08-01T11:13
at 2021-08-01T11:13
會有結論 因為每個人的球迷都會拿對他支持
的球星有利的數據來講話 最後的結果就是沒
結果

By Kyle
at 2021-08-02T23:51
at 2021-08-02T23:51
力比妳打2k還猛

By Isla
at 2021-08-04T06:47
at 2021-08-04T06:47

By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2021-08-04T16:02
at 2021-08-04T16:02

By Carol
at 2021-08-07T10:53
at 2021-08-07T10:53
坐不穩王位還想爭GOAT 下去好嗎 3peat*2+沒對手退休

By Zenobia
at 2021-08-12T03:46
at 2021-08-12T03:46

By Iris
at 2021-08-12T13:48
at 2021-08-12T13:48

By Caitlin
at 2021-08-13T03:04
at 2021-08-13T03:04

By Joseph
at 2021-08-17T23:14
at 2021-08-17T23:14

By Rae
at 2021-08-18T06:18
at 2021-08-18T06:18
個不小心就翻車

By Zenobia
at 2021-08-19T06:59
at 2021-08-19T06:59
輯是在哈囉

By Hardy
at 2021-08-21T00:32
at 2021-08-21T00:32
來考慮

By Charlotte
at 2021-08-23T15:04
at 2021-08-23T15:04

By Gilbert
at 2021-08-26T22:21
at 2021-08-26T22:21

By Hazel
at 2021-08-29T14:41
at 2021-08-29T14:41

By Charlotte
at 2021-08-31T18:28
at 2021-08-31T18:28

By Damian
at 2021-09-03T04:26
at 2021-09-03T04:26

By Zora
at 2021-09-04T10:51
at 2021-09-04T10:51
走捷徑洗白太誇張

By Agatha
at 2021-09-06T09:51
at 2021-09-06T09:51
稱之goat真的會被笑

By Genevieve
at 2021-09-09T15:55
at 2021-09-09T15:55

By Skylar Davis
at 2021-09-12T05:56
at 2021-09-12T05:56
表現的總和平比
評比
不然每次講到FMVP多重要 就會有跳針講說小AI也有拿
難道就比馬龍強了嗎云云

By Eartha
at 2021-09-17T04:59
at 2021-09-17T04:59

By Christine
at 2021-09-19T22:55
at 2021-09-19T22:55
妳把跨隊拿冠軍可能的困難 和奪連霸可能的困難

By Selena
at 2021-09-23T22:51
at 2021-09-23T22:51
客觀來說 跨不同隊都拿FMVP難度根本沒比較低

By Carolina Franco
at 2021-09-24T01:51
at 2021-09-24T01:51
不能證明個人的絕對強度

By Steve
at 2021-09-24T23:33
at 2021-09-24T23:33
妳搭配不同隊伍、不同教練、隊友、體系、戰術
都可以帶隊奪總冠和FMVP

By Donna
at 2021-09-25T07:34
at 2021-09-25T07:34
為了抬轎什麼話都說的出來...

By Emily
at 2021-09-29T00:47
at 2021-09-29T00:47
還可以奪冠
但是禪師已經證明 沒有喬丹可以率隊奪冠
因此反過來說 禪師對聯霸的貢獻 你無法去證明低於
喬丹

By Puput
at 2021-10-03T14:57
at 2021-10-03T14:57

By Robert
at 2021-10-06T04:22
at 2021-10-06T04:22
三連霸難度高沒錯 但跟跨隊奪三MVP比較就難說

By Jessica
at 2021-10-10T02:36
at 2021-10-10T02:36

By Isabella
at 2021-10-11T00:33
at 2021-10-11T00:33

By Mason
at 2021-10-15T22:31
at 2021-10-15T22:31
..等等的問題。這很多文章都說過了..不然三連霸沒
那麼重要為什麼大家一直說?(可不是只有ptt在說啊
)

By Jessica
at 2021-10-18T13:23
at 2021-10-18T13:23
自己看看這幾年切入為主的 在冠軍戰不是被驅防招待

By Andrew
at 2021-10-19T00:31
at 2021-10-19T00:31
跨隊要適應體系隊友和教練 這個難度也很大
場外的環境也需要適應
一堆名將 換一個球隊就整個弱掉...

By Zenobia
at 2021-10-20T08:50
at 2021-10-20T08:50
,還跨隊找巔峰隊友更難勒...

By Ida
at 2021-10-25T08:17
at 2021-10-25T08:17

By Callum
at 2021-10-28T09:20
at 2021-10-28T09:20
就說這比較多是證明整支球隊在那幾年制霸

By Quanna
at 2021-10-30T05:56
at 2021-10-30T05:56
了誰不知道LBJ球隊的戰術就是全隊改變打法配合他一
個人的打法,這很明顯沒必要在說明了吧...

By Quanna
at 2021-10-31T08:13
at 2021-10-31T08:13
進總冠 然後其中拿三個FMVP就是沒人

By Thomas
at 2021-11-03T13:16
at 2021-11-03T13:16

By Jacob
at 2021-11-04T23:05
at 2021-11-04T23:05
這樣
更何況前面講了 MVP客觀上至少不能證明沒禪師沒pipe

By Kristin
at 2021-11-06T01:23
at 2021-11-06T01:23

By Rae
at 2021-11-06T07:59
at 2021-11-06T07:59
沒禪師+皮本可以拿冠

By Rachel
at 2021-11-09T00:40
at 2021-11-09T00:40
棄說好一起不只七冠的老化Wade兄弟,跟轉回有健康KI
騎士哪一個簡單?

By Iris
at 2021-11-09T07:57
at 2021-11-09T07:57
難道不同隊伍 可以穩定帶隊 不是客觀事實
客觀事實都可以否認的話也就無妨了

By Suhail Hany
at 2021-11-10T00:37
at 2021-11-10T00:37
隊帶隊很厲害啦!但是帶著老傷弱繼續前進跟轉隊找新
鮮大腿哪一個難??

By Edith
at 2021-11-13T07:06
at 2021-11-13T07:06
就是趨於極致

By Dinah
at 2021-11-15T13:43
at 2021-11-15T13:43
AD就不算健康了

By Yedda
at 2021-11-18T09:30
at 2021-11-18T09:30
所以一直轉隊不是嗎?

By Charlotte
at 2021-11-19T05:11
at 2021-11-19T05:11

By Belly
at 2021-11-24T04:53
at 2021-11-24T04:53
就難說了

By Xanthe
at 2021-11-27T22:00
at 2021-11-27T22:00

By Rachel
at 2021-12-01T20:48
at 2021-12-01T20:48
張伯倫和羅素就可以對照
羅素連霸多 沒轉隊 一堆冠軍

By Andy
at 2021-12-03T21:52
at 2021-12-03T21:52
難?

By Dora
at 2021-12-04T06:57
at 2021-12-04T06:57
其實羅素跟張伯倫的對比就是很好的例子
如果趙這個邏輯 羅素絕對是>>>>>>>>>>張伯倫的
沒轉隊 又一堆冠軍又8連霸....

By Emily
at 2021-12-07T12:09
at 2021-12-07T12:09
最大的是制服組跟球星魅力...所謂大小城市除了LA NY
以外的差別根本不大...

By Olive
at 2021-12-09T04:08
at 2021-12-09T04:08

By Sierra Rose
at 2021-12-09T13:43
at 2021-12-09T13:43

By Mary
at 2021-12-14T06:29
at 2021-12-14T06:29
尼克再不堪也有2冠 放眼全NBA 0冠的城市還很多

By Doris
at 2021-12-17T15:48
at 2021-12-17T15:48
都0冠 所以那冠才是價值連城

By Quanna
at 2021-12-20T05:34
at 2021-12-20T05:34
到蠻多二位爭執的重點
然後不要被影片標題騙了 內容很不一樣XD

By Ula
at 2021-12-21T04:52
at 2021-12-21T04:52
友其實更難打...有看球的都知道沒AD,湖人能不能過
火箭都不知道,2348連他自己都不敢說能一直開下去,
不然他待過的隊伍拚命找其他一哥幹嘛?

By Oscar
at 2021-12-26T03:52
at 2021-12-26T03:52
啊

By Joe
at 2021-12-27T07:23
at 2021-12-27T07:23

By Kyle
at 2021-12-31T05:52
at 2021-12-31T05:52
以他命名的

By Candice
at 2022-01-02T22:48
at 2022-01-02T22:48

By Zenobia
at 2022-01-04T00:18
at 2022-01-04T00:18

By Lily
at 2022-01-06T05:42
at 2022-01-06T05:42

By Joe
at 2022-01-10T03:00
at 2022-01-10T03:00

By David
at 2022-01-13T11:29
at 2022-01-13T11:29
三王三連霸了嗎?

By Charlie
at 2022-01-17T12:14
at 2022-01-17T12:14
是連霸不是什麼重要的事 這麼不重要拿個一次來看看

By Edward Lewis
at 2022-01-19T15:03
at 2022-01-19T15:03
向下掉

By Erin
at 2022-01-20T02:20
at 2022-01-20T02:20
用的東西...建議修改一下就沒那麼容易起爭執了

By Hedy
at 2022-01-24T23:16
at 2022-01-24T23:16
幹嘛?

By Thomas
at 2022-01-26T17:42
at 2022-01-26T17:42
竟不是每個人都會推文全部看完

By Necoo
at 2022-01-27T11:44
at 2022-01-27T11:44

By Elizabeth
at 2022-01-29T15:42
at 2022-01-29T15:42
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