TD 21 到底有多強? - NBA
By Delia
at 2016-12-03T21:32
at 2016-12-03T21:32
Table of Contents
在下是個湖人迷而非柯迷,對鄧肯該有的尊重仍然是會拿出來的。
本來這個話題我懶得去看,但有兩句話讓我實在不得不出來回應。
首先,神獸到底的定義是什麼還可以好好討論,不過我猜不外乎獎項跟數據還有個人紀錄
這幾項吧,畢竟這是和你個人威力直接相關的,不太會牽扯到隊友跟教練(但是冠軍會)。
獎項方面,鄧肯的FMVP是三座,並列史上第二。可是MVP他只拿了兩座,就已經輸給九個
人了。兩項加起來以後是五個,在歷史上並列第七(FMVP太晚出現,所以羅素跟大帥在這
方面的總和實際上分別有至少十跟六座),看似很猛,但是在他前面的六個人可是有著11
、10、8、7、6、6這樣的總和,若是因此稱鄧肯為神獸會不會讓這兩個字太廉價了?
數據上,鄧肯生涯從來沒有拿過任何一個傳統數據王;歷史前十的球員除了他以外都有拿
過。甚至退一萬步講,Curry Westbrook Durant都有拿過至少一個傳統數據王。當然,我
知道進階數據也很重要,可是當一個被叫做「神獸」的球員終其一生沒有在傳統數據稱王
,這不會令人感到有點奇怪嗎?更不用講鄧肯的傳統數據自從生涯第十年就開始下滑,儘
管是穩定的衰退就是,但跟別的歷史級球星相比就是遜色了。
何況鄧肯的進階數據,例如WS/48,也只有歷史第十三,這樣給予神獸的稱號會不會標準
太寬鬆了?
鄧肯最能拿來講的個人紀錄就是連續17年50勝,這個紀錄到底該歸類為個人還是團隊紀錄
我覺得可以討論,畢竟81分、金滿貫(同一年內拿下MVP+冠軍+FMVP+奧運金牌)、六座MVP
、歷史火鍋王這種明顯是個人紀錄,不過我就先當作是個人紀錄。
問題來了,既然大家會堅持說Kobe的五個冠軍裡面有三座不是在自己帶隊的時候奪得的,
那以同樣的放大鏡檢視鄧肯的這項紀錄,應該也頗為合理吧?如果用帶隊與否當基準的話
,那鄧肯最近六年明顯已經退居二線,讓出領導權,這樣子連續十七年50勝就只可以算十
一年喔。
可是連續十一年放眼歷史上很稀有嗎?至少我就能立馬想到羅素、大帥、魔術、大鳥、大
夢、歐肥有做到這樣的成就了,甚至現役的小皇帝也已經連續八年50勝,要緊接著達成應
該不是問題。
由此可見,「以一哥身分帶隊」完成連續十一年50勝的紀錄並不算稀有,要給予神獸的稱
號,多半是有待商榷的吧?
be好歹有帶隊連霸過,是歷史得分榜第三名,生涯的巔峰期比鄧肯長而且數據更凶,這些
鄧肯也沒有做到過啊!
雖然整體而言鄧肯的排名仍該勝過Kobe,但理應差不了太多,大概就是一個第八另一個第
九,這樣叫做「追不
上」?那鄧肯豈不是跟魔術差了十萬八千里?
鄧肯絕對是個好領袖,是傳奇人物,篤定的歷史前十,但請不要神話他,更不要為了讚美
他而去貶低其他球星,就這樣。
--
本來這個話題我懶得去看,但有兩句話讓我實在不得不出來回應。
→ arcss : 對照組是TD真的很痛苦....動不動被拿來跟神獸比 XD12/03 18:54
「神獸」? 首先,神獸到底的定義是什麼還可以好好討論,不過我猜不外乎獎項跟數據還有個人紀錄
這幾項吧,畢竟這是和你個人威力直接相關的,不太會牽扯到隊友跟教練(但是冠軍會)。
獎項方面,鄧肯的FMVP是三座,並列史上第二。可是MVP他只拿了兩座,就已經輸給九個
人了。兩項加起來以後是五個,在歷史上並列第七(FMVP太晚出現,所以羅素跟大帥在這
方面的總和實際上分別有至少十跟六座),看似很猛,但是在他前面的六個人可是有著11
、10、8、7、6、6這樣的總和,若是因此稱鄧肯為神獸會不會讓這兩個字太廉價了?
數據上,鄧肯生涯從來沒有拿過任何一個傳統數據王;歷史前十的球員除了他以外都有拿
過。甚至退一萬步講,Curry Westbrook Durant都有拿過至少一個傳統數據王。當然,我
知道進階數據也很重要,可是當一個被叫做「神獸」的球員終其一生沒有在傳統數據稱王
,這不會令人感到有點奇怪嗎?更不用講鄧肯的傳統數據自從生涯第十年就開始下滑,儘
管是穩定的衰退就是,但跟別的歷史級球星相比就是遜色了。
何況鄧肯的進階數據,例如WS/48,也只有歷史第十三,這樣給予神獸的稱號會不會標準
太寬鬆了?
鄧肯最能拿來講的個人紀錄就是連續17年50勝,這個紀錄到底該歸類為個人還是團隊紀錄
我覺得可以討論,畢竟81分、金滿貫(同一年內拿下MVP+冠軍+FMVP+奧運金牌)、六座MVP
、歷史火鍋王這種明顯是個人紀錄,不過我就先當作是個人紀錄。
問題來了,既然大家會堅持說Kobe的五個冠軍裡面有三座不是在自己帶隊的時候奪得的,
那以同樣的放大鏡檢視鄧肯的這項紀錄,應該也頗為合理吧?如果用帶隊與否當基準的話
,那鄧肯最近六年明顯已經退居二線,讓出領導權,這樣子連續十七年50勝就只可以算十
一年喔。
可是連續十一年放眼歷史上很稀有嗎?至少我就能立馬想到羅素、大帥、魔術、大鳥、大
夢、歐肥有做到這樣的成就了,甚至現役的小皇帝也已經連續八年50勝,要緊接著達成應
該不是問題。
由此可見,「以一哥身分帶隊」完成連續十一年50勝的紀錄並不算稀有,要給予神獸的稱
號,多半是有待商榷的吧?
→ hohoman : KB迷黑TD外遇不意外,主子成就追不上,就以為人人12/03 19:40
→ hohoman : 心中都有丹佛夜吧!12/03 19:40
Kobe的獎項不如鄧肯是鐵定的事實,四次沒進季後賽外加隊史黑暗期也非常丟臉。可是Ko be好歹有帶隊連霸過,是歷史得分榜第三名,生涯的巔峰期比鄧肯長而且數據更凶,這些
鄧肯也沒有做到過啊!
雖然整體而言鄧肯的排名仍該勝過Kobe,但理應差不了太多,大概就是一個第八另一個第
九,這樣叫做「追不
上」?那鄧肯豈不是跟魔術差了十萬八千里?
鄧肯絕對是個好領袖,是傳奇人物,篤定的歷史前十,但請不要神話他,更不要為了讚美
他而去貶低其他球星,就這樣。
--
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