Bird的成就真的"明顯"不如Magic嗎? - NBA
By Oscar
at 2017-12-10T17:28
at 2017-12-10T17:28
Table of Contents
→ zenithal : 魔術比大鳥成就還高的原因 是冠軍和FMVP都比大鳥多 06/18 17:19
推 zenithal : 其實要不是八○年代炒作黑白之爭 07/13 22:46
→ zenithal : Magic的成就明顯高過Bird的 07/13 22:46
https://bbs.hupu.com/19595309.html
恰好最近逛到一篇虎撲文章,內容挺有意思的,就把它轉來分享。
大意:
很多人看到5冠3MVP3FMVP比3冠3MVP2FMVP要多,就說Magic Johnson的成就明顯高過Larry
Bird。但是,考量兩人隊友教練差異,以至於1980年代的東強西弱局勢後,我們直接用冠
軍差距評價兩人是否對Bird不公平?
我們來看扣除湖塞兩隊後,80年代每個賽季東西區球隊戰績狀況(藍色代表東區佔優勢,
紅色代表西區佔優勢)。由於Bird在88-89賽季整季報銷後身手大衰退拖離巔峰,因此我們
只取樣到88-89賽季。
賽季 50勝球隊 55勝球隊 60勝球隊
1979-80 2-2 1-2 0-0
1980-81 3-2 2-0 2-0
1981-82 2-1 2-0 0-0
1982-83 2-2 1-0 1-0
1983-84 2-0 0-0 0-0
1984-85 2-1 2-0 0-0
1985-86 3-1 1-0 0-0
1986-87 3-1 1-1 0-0
1987-88 3-3 0-0 0-0
1988-89 4-2 2-1 1-0
這十年內,東區戰績佔優勢的次數和西區戰績佔優勢的比例大到17:1!尤其西區在81-86
年間除了湖人以外沒有任何球隊贏得55勝以上的戰績,同期的東區十年內卻有八年出現過
除了塞爾蒂克以外的55勝球隊!更不用說整個80年代西區就只有湖人拿過單季60勝戰績,
東區則是有過四支除了塞爾蒂克以外的60勝球隊。最扯的是80-81賽季,那時聯盟前三名
全部來自東區,且這三隊都有至少60勝!因此我們很明顯的可以看出,西區當年的競爭力
遠不如東區。
隊友部分,Magic的隊友Kareem Abdul-Jabbar和James Worthy的實力是要強過Bird身旁的
Robert Parish與Kevin McHale,理由很簡單:Worthy, Parish及McHale都是五十大巨星
等級,實力差不多,但是Jabbar可是公認的史上前三人,身手大勝前述的三位球員。再加
上Magic的教練Pat Riley乃史上四大教練之一,完全不是Bird的教練K.C Jones可比擬的
,因此教練也是Magic的明顯較好。
拿著兩人中明顯較差的陣容,碰上明顯較強的對手,Bird的起跑點相比Magic吃了大虧。
然而,Bird依舊在當年帶隊拿下6次單季60勝的戰績,比Magic帶隊時的3次來得好。不要
小看60勝的戰績,它沒有你想得那樣好拿:舉例來說,Tim Duncan帶隊時僅有2次單季60
勝,有好幾年卡在58和59勝,甚至曾發生47-13,20-4和20-6的開局最終卻依然無緣60勝
的結果(球隊狀況急轉直下的程度堪比07-08賽季Chris Paul最後6戰4敗丟掉MVP的事實,
典型的虎頭蛇尾);當然,歷史上也是有出現過像是Michael Jordan或是LeBron James這
種僅打出28-13,8-7甚至5-6開局最後卻硬是把球隊戰績衝上60勝甚至65勝的案例。由此
可見Bird的6次60勝賽季有多麼了不起!
仔細檢視1980年代的時空背景,我們是可以體會到為何不少球評堅持魔鳥不分家,因為他
們顯然有考慮到對手和隊友的狀況。所以,儘管Magic成就的確較高,但也就只是小贏Bir
d而已,絕對沒有到高出一截的地步;直接以冠軍來說Magic成就高出Bird一截,顯然是不
客觀也不厚道的。
--
推 zenithal : 其實要不是八○年代炒作黑白之爭 07/13 22:46
→ zenithal : Magic的成就明顯高過Bird的 07/13 22:46
https://bbs.hupu.com/19595309.html
恰好最近逛到一篇虎撲文章,內容挺有意思的,就把它轉來分享。
大意:
很多人看到5冠3MVP3FMVP比3冠3MVP2FMVP要多,就說Magic Johnson的成就明顯高過Larry
Bird。但是,考量兩人隊友教練差異,以至於1980年代的東強西弱局勢後,我們直接用冠
軍差距評價兩人是否對Bird不公平?
我們來看扣除湖塞兩隊後,80年代每個賽季東西區球隊戰績狀況(藍色代表東區佔優勢,
紅色代表西區佔優勢)。由於Bird在88-89賽季整季報銷後身手大衰退拖離巔峰,因此我們
只取樣到88-89賽季。
賽季 50勝球隊 55勝球隊 60勝球隊
1979-80 2-2 1-2 0-0
1980-81 3-2 2-0 2-0
1981-82 2-1 2-0 0-0
1982-83 2-2 1-0 1-0
1983-84 2-0 0-0 0-0
1984-85 2-1 2-0 0-0
1985-86 3-1 1-0 0-0
1986-87 3-1 1-1 0-0
1987-88 3-3 0-0 0-0
1988-89 4-2 2-1 1-0
這十年內,東區戰績佔優勢的次數和西區戰績佔優勢的比例大到17:1!尤其西區在81-86
年間除了湖人以外沒有任何球隊贏得55勝以上的戰績,同期的東區十年內卻有八年出現過
除了塞爾蒂克以外的55勝球隊!更不用說整個80年代西區就只有湖人拿過單季60勝戰績,
東區則是有過四支除了塞爾蒂克以外的60勝球隊。最扯的是80-81賽季,那時聯盟前三名
全部來自東區,且這三隊都有至少60勝!因此我們很明顯的可以看出,西區當年的競爭力
遠不如東區。
隊友部分,Magic的隊友Kareem Abdul-Jabbar和James Worthy的實力是要強過Bird身旁的
Robert Parish與Kevin McHale,理由很簡單:Worthy, Parish及McHale都是五十大巨星
等級,實力差不多,但是Jabbar可是公認的史上前三人,身手大勝前述的三位球員。再加
上Magic的教練Pat Riley乃史上四大教練之一,完全不是Bird的教練K.C Jones可比擬的
,因此教練也是Magic的明顯較好。
拿著兩人中明顯較差的陣容,碰上明顯較強的對手,Bird的起跑點相比Magic吃了大虧。
然而,Bird依舊在當年帶隊拿下6次單季60勝的戰績,比Magic帶隊時的3次來得好。不要
小看60勝的戰績,它沒有你想得那樣好拿:舉例來說,Tim Duncan帶隊時僅有2次單季60
勝,有好幾年卡在58和59勝,甚至曾發生47-13,20-4和20-6的開局最終卻依然無緣60勝
的結果(球隊狀況急轉直下的程度堪比07-08賽季Chris Paul最後6戰4敗丟掉MVP的事實,
典型的虎頭蛇尾);當然,歷史上也是有出現過像是Michael Jordan或是LeBron James這
種僅打出28-13,8-7甚至5-6開局最後卻硬是把球隊戰績衝上60勝甚至65勝的案例。由此
可見Bird的6次60勝賽季有多麼了不起!
仔細檢視1980年代的時空背景,我們是可以體會到為何不少球評堅持魔鳥不分家,因為他
們顯然有考慮到對手和隊友的狀況。所以,儘管Magic成就的確較高,但也就只是小贏Bir
d而已,絕對沒有到高出一截的地步;直接以冠軍來說Magic成就高出Bird一截,顯然是不
客觀也不厚道的。
--
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at 2019-01-22T14:32
By Liam
at 2019-01-25T01:38
at 2019-01-25T01:38
By Hedda
at 2019-01-27T00:36
at 2019-01-27T00:36
By Irma
at 2019-01-28T21:17
at 2019-01-28T21:17
By Oscar
at 2019-02-01T06:54
at 2019-02-01T06:54
By Thomas
at 2019-02-05T15:36
at 2019-02-05T15:36
By Anthony
at 2019-02-06T07:33
at 2019-02-06T07:33
By Freda
at 2019-02-09T14:11
at 2019-02-09T14:11
By Tracy
at 2019-02-11T10:21
at 2019-02-11T10:21
By Odelette
at 2019-02-14T09:46
at 2019-02-14T09:46
By Poppy
at 2019-02-15T05:15
at 2019-02-15T05:15
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at 2019-02-18T04:32
at 2019-02-18T04:32
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at 2019-02-21T20:18
at 2019-02-21T20:18
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at 2019-02-22T15:37
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at 2019-02-26T19:43
at 2019-02-26T19:43
By Robert
at 2019-03-02T21:26
at 2019-03-02T21:26
By Rebecca
at 2019-03-07T13:00
at 2019-03-07T13:00
By Necoo
at 2019-03-09T00:03
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By Necoo
at 2019-03-13T17:36
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By Irma
at 2019-03-17T18:19
at 2019-03-17T18:19
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at 2019-03-24T22:44
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at 2019-03-29T18:40
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at 2019-04-11T09:08
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at 2019-04-15T04:56
at 2019-04-15T04:56
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at 2019-04-18T15:47
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at 2019-04-22T09:16
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at 2019-04-23T14:02
at 2019-04-23T14:02
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at 2019-04-24T10:21
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at 2019-05-05T08:12
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By Isabella
at 2019-05-06T03:06
at 2019-05-06T03:06
By Dinah
at 2019-05-10T22:31
at 2019-05-10T22:31
By Dinah
at 2019-05-15T17:30
at 2019-05-15T17:30
By Donna
at 2019-05-19T10:12
at 2019-05-19T10:12
By Noah
at 2019-05-21T05:54
at 2019-05-21T05:54
By Skylar Davis
at 2019-05-24T07:46
at 2019-05-24T07:46
By Gary
at 2019-05-27T02:48
at 2019-05-27T02:48
By Margaret
at 2019-05-30T11:01
at 2019-05-30T11:01
By Jacob
at 2019-06-02T12:20
at 2019-06-02T12:20
By Iris
at 2019-06-04T04:50
at 2019-06-04T04:50
By Ivy
at 2019-06-08T00:23
at 2019-06-08T00:23
By Ursula
at 2019-06-11T03:59
at 2019-06-11T03:59
By Margaret
at 2019-06-15T22:15
at 2019-06-15T22:15
By Thomas
at 2019-06-18T16:08
at 2019-06-18T16:08
By Charlie
at 2019-06-20T06:27
at 2019-06-20T06:27
By Jack
at 2019-06-20T18:50
at 2019-06-20T18:50
By Victoria
at 2019-06-22T06:41
at 2019-06-22T06:41
By William
at 2019-06-22T09:29
at 2019-06-22T09:29
By Cara
at 2019-06-24T15:19
at 2019-06-24T15:19
By Kristin
at 2019-06-26T15:22
at 2019-06-26T15:22
By Skylar Davis
at 2019-06-28T13:47
at 2019-06-28T13:47
By Cara
at 2019-06-29T01:44
at 2019-06-29T01:44
By Ida
at 2019-07-03T10:11
at 2019-07-03T10:11
By Dorothy
at 2019-07-03T16:49
at 2019-07-03T16:49
By Noah
at 2019-07-06T15:30
at 2019-07-06T15:30
By Annie
at 2019-07-08T18:10
at 2019-07-08T18:10
By Ula
at 2019-07-11T15:26
at 2019-07-11T15:26
By Audriana
at 2019-07-15T08:47
at 2019-07-15T08:47
By Regina
at 2019-07-16T07:20
at 2019-07-16T07:20
By Mason
at 2019-07-16T12:18
at 2019-07-16T12:18
By Daniel
at 2019-07-18T06:15
at 2019-07-18T06:15
By Lydia
at 2019-07-18T20:35
at 2019-07-18T20:35
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2019-07-21T11:03
at 2019-07-21T11:03
By Mia
at 2019-07-21T18:24
at 2019-07-21T18:24
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2019-07-26T16:55
at 2019-07-26T16:55
By David
at 2019-07-26T19:40
at 2019-07-26T19:40
By Joseph
at 2019-07-27T18:45
at 2019-07-27T18:45
By Tom
at 2019-07-29T13:41
at 2019-07-29T13:41
By Adele
at 2019-08-01T03:48
at 2019-08-01T03:48
By Elizabeth
at 2019-08-02T15:07
at 2019-08-02T15:07
By Tristan Cohan
at 2019-08-04T21:53
at 2019-08-04T21:53
By Hedy
at 2019-08-05T04:35
at 2019-08-05T04:35
By Sarah
at 2019-08-07T21:05
at 2019-08-07T21:05
By Enid
at 2019-08-10T08:16
at 2019-08-10T08:16
By Iris
at 2019-08-14T03:31
at 2019-08-14T03:31
By Erin
at 2019-08-14T22:40
at 2019-08-14T22:40
By Harry
at 2019-08-15T02:15
at 2019-08-15T02:15
By Liam
at 2019-08-16T10:40
at 2019-08-16T10:40
By Tristan Cohan
at 2019-08-20T00:51
at 2019-08-20T00:51
By Liam
at 2019-08-22T03:11
at 2019-08-22T03:11
By Olivia
at 2019-08-26T05:13
at 2019-08-26T05:13
By Dora
at 2019-08-27T10:02
at 2019-08-27T10:02
By Christine
at 2019-08-29T23:15
at 2019-08-29T23:15
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at 2019-09-03T21:18
at 2019-09-03T21:18
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at 2019-09-06T19:23
at 2019-09-06T19:23
By Iris
at 2019-09-08T21:38
at 2019-09-08T21:38
By Frederica
at 2019-09-12T14:35
at 2019-09-12T14:35
By Selena
at 2019-09-17T06:21
at 2019-09-17T06:21
By Charlie
at 2019-09-18T14:27
at 2019-09-18T14:27
By Kelly
at 2019-09-20T14:08
at 2019-09-20T14:08
By Donna
at 2019-09-25T00:18
at 2019-09-25T00:18
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at 2019-09-25T02:15
at 2019-09-25T02:15
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at 2019-09-26T10:57
at 2019-09-26T10:57
By Ida
at 2019-09-29T02:53
at 2019-09-29T02:53
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at 2019-10-01T04:23
at 2019-10-01T04:23
By Vanessa
at 2019-10-03T06:58
at 2019-10-03T06:58
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at 2019-10-06T05:35
at 2019-10-06T05:35
By Susan
at 2019-10-09T15:49
at 2019-10-09T15:49
By Brianna
at 2019-10-14T10:33
at 2019-10-14T10:33
By Quanna
at 2019-10-17T15:47
at 2019-10-17T15:47
By Oliver
at 2019-10-19T18:30
at 2019-10-19T18:30
By Elvira
at 2019-10-22T10:53
at 2019-10-22T10:53
By Caroline
at 2019-10-24T10:50
at 2019-10-24T10:50
By Rachel
at 2019-10-28T06:42
at 2019-10-28T06:42
By Damian
at 2019-10-31T10:34
at 2019-10-31T10:34
By Suhail Hany
at 2019-11-02T17:49
at 2019-11-02T17:49
By Suhail Hany
at 2019-11-04T05:36
at 2019-11-04T05:36
By Lucy
at 2019-11-08T15:08
at 2019-11-08T15:08
By Belly
at 2019-11-11T19:13
at 2019-11-11T19:13
By Dinah
at 2019-11-15T01:39
at 2019-11-15T01:39
By Elvira
at 2019-11-18T14:55
at 2019-11-18T14:55
By Blanche
at 2019-11-19T07:53
at 2019-11-19T07:53
By Bennie
at 2019-11-23T06:54
at 2019-11-23T06:54
By Leila
at 2019-11-25T23:44
at 2019-11-25T23:44
By Cara
at 2019-11-28T04:40
at 2019-11-28T04:40
By Faithe
at 2019-11-30T10:21
at 2019-11-30T10:21
By Bennie
at 2019-12-01T05:54
at 2019-12-01T05:54
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at 2019-12-04T09:06
at 2019-12-04T09:06
By Edith
at 2019-12-05T01:00
at 2019-12-05T01:00
By Tracy
at 2019-12-07T01:09
at 2019-12-07T01:09
By Noah
at 2019-12-10T14:43
at 2019-12-10T14:43
By Noah
at 2019-12-12T11:35
at 2019-12-12T11:35
By Michael
at 2019-12-16T18:13
at 2019-12-16T18:13
By Steve
at 2019-12-20T12:58
at 2019-12-20T12:58
By Zanna
at 2019-12-23T16:36
at 2019-12-23T16:36
By Carol
at 2019-12-28T03:00
at 2019-12-28T03:00
By Olivia
at 2019-12-28T08:40
at 2019-12-28T08:40
By Queena
at 2019-12-29T21:42
at 2019-12-29T21:42
By Joseph
at 2020-01-03T03:44
at 2020-01-03T03:44
By Charlotte
at 2020-01-05T11:26
at 2020-01-05T11:26
By Gilbert
at 2020-01-08T06:56
at 2020-01-08T06:56
By Thomas
at 2020-01-08T22:07
at 2020-01-08T22:07
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2020-01-09T10:20
at 2020-01-09T10:20
By Heather
at 2020-01-13T21:44
at 2020-01-13T21:44
By Heather
at 2020-01-16T01:30
at 2020-01-16T01:30
By Carolina Franco
at 2020-01-19T20:32
at 2020-01-19T20:32
By Jacky
at 2020-01-21T01:35
at 2020-01-21T01:35
By Leila
at 2020-01-22T07:25
at 2020-01-22T07:25
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at 2020-01-26T00:18
at 2020-01-26T00:18
By Ursula
at 2020-01-28T09:30
at 2020-01-28T09:30
By Queena
at 2020-02-01T01:23
at 2020-02-01T01:23
By Caroline
at 2020-02-05T15:10
at 2020-02-05T15:10
By Lucy
at 2020-02-08T17:57
at 2020-02-08T17:57
By Andrew
at 2020-02-09T03:05
at 2020-02-09T03:05
By Frederica
at 2020-02-09T15:32
at 2020-02-09T15:32
By Daniel
at 2020-02-13T23:27
at 2020-02-13T23:27
By Catherine
at 2020-02-16T17:34
at 2020-02-16T17:34
By Mary
at 2020-02-19T09:31
at 2020-02-19T09:31
By Thomas
at 2020-02-20T07:19
at 2020-02-20T07:19
By James
at 2020-02-20T08:34
at 2020-02-20T08:34
By Quintina
at 2020-02-22T19:35
at 2020-02-22T19:35
By Kelly
at 2020-02-25T17:43
at 2020-02-25T17:43
By Joe
at 2020-02-28T17:30
at 2020-02-28T17:30
By Steve
at 2020-02-29T16:19
at 2020-02-29T16:19
By Poppy
at 2020-03-04T23:27
at 2020-03-04T23:27
By Olivia
at 2020-03-05T22:13
at 2020-03-05T22:13
By Caroline
at 2020-03-09T15:13
at 2020-03-09T15:13
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at 2020-03-12T11:12
at 2020-03-12T11:12
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at 2020-03-15T21:40
at 2020-03-15T21:40
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at 2020-03-16T22:59
at 2020-03-16T22:59
By Barb Cronin
at 2020-03-21T00:59
at 2020-03-21T00:59
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at 2020-03-25T21:23
at 2020-03-25T21:23
By Edith
at 2020-03-30T16:23
at 2020-03-30T16:23
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at 2020-04-02T07:06
at 2020-04-02T07:06
By Belly
at 2020-04-05T23:53
at 2020-04-05T23:53
By Victoria
at 2020-04-08T13:33
at 2020-04-08T13:33
By Odelette
at 2020-04-10T11:48
at 2020-04-10T11:48
By Agnes
at 2020-04-13T15:22
at 2020-04-13T15:22
By Robert
at 2020-04-17T18:09
at 2020-04-17T18:09
By Agatha
at 2020-04-19T05:56
at 2020-04-19T05:56
By Sierra Rose
at 2020-04-22T03:39
at 2020-04-22T03:39
By Tristan Cohan
at 2020-04-24T23:54
at 2020-04-24T23:54
By Bennie
at 2020-04-29T05:00
at 2020-04-29T05:00
By Ivy
at 2020-04-30T10:37
at 2020-04-30T10:37
By Anonymous
at 2020-05-01T23:08
at 2020-05-01T23:08
By Susan
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at 2020-05-09T01:53
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at 2020-05-12T10:20
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at 2020-05-16T19:07
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at 2020-05-20T07:44
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at 2020-05-22T08:20
at 2020-05-22T08:20
By Mason
at 2020-05-24T12:15
at 2020-05-24T12:15
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at 2020-05-25T00:32
at 2020-05-25T00:32
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at 2020-05-28T15:43
at 2020-05-28T15:43
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at 2020-06-02T00:46
at 2020-06-02T00:46
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at 2020-06-06T03:01
at 2020-06-06T03:01
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at 2020-06-10T19:44
at 2020-06-10T19:44
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at 2020-06-11T00:40
at 2020-06-11T00:40
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at 2020-06-11T17:02
at 2020-06-11T17:02
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at 2020-06-16T05:55
at 2020-06-16T05:55
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at 2020-06-19T21:53
at 2020-06-19T21:53
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at 2020-06-22T03:53
at 2020-06-22T03:53
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at 2020-06-22T12:43
at 2020-06-22T12:43
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at 2020-06-26T09:19
at 2020-06-26T09:19
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at 2020-06-30T21:20
at 2020-06-30T21:20
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at 2020-07-05T04:20
at 2020-07-05T04:20
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at 2020-07-06T19:38
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at 2020-09-09T03:59
at 2020-09-09T03:59
By Charlotte
at 2020-09-12T11:38
at 2020-09-12T11:38
By Regina
at 2020-09-12T18:39
at 2020-09-12T18:39
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at 2020-09-15T12:16
at 2020-09-15T12:16
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at 2020-09-19T09:28
at 2020-09-19T09:28
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at 2020-09-23T14:53
at 2020-09-23T14:53
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at 2020-09-25T20:28
at 2020-09-25T20:28
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at 2020-09-28T18:20
at 2020-09-28T18:20
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at 2020-09-30T16:25
at 2020-09-30T16:25
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at 2020-10-04T17:38
at 2020-10-04T17:38
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at 2020-10-06T15:06
at 2020-10-06T15:06
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at 2020-10-09T19:44
at 2020-10-09T19:44
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at 2020-10-13T19:52
at 2020-10-13T19:52
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at 2020-10-16T17:00
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at 2020-10-19T01:53
at 2020-10-19T01:53
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at 2020-10-20T01:17
at 2020-10-20T01:17
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at 2020-10-24T09:16
at 2020-10-24T09:16
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at 2020-10-30T21:56
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at 2020-11-01T01:41
at 2020-11-01T01:41
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at 2020-11-02T14:57
at 2020-11-02T14:57
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