Bill Bavasi - 美國職棒
By Harry
at 2008-01-10T21:42
at 2008-01-10T21:42
Table of Contents
推 tunababy:其實豬頭B被罵也不是在水兵才被罵. 01/10 15:07
→ tunababy:天使的時代就被罵翻了... 01/10 15:07
→ tunababy:尤其是天使農場要被搞的很爛... 01/10 15:08
→ tunababy:很多天使的Blog到現在都還在罵. 01/10 15:09
推 tunababy:還有,小聯盟拉到大聯盟這種跟你交易之後的掏空完全不同.. 01/10 15:32
→ tunababy:小聯盟拉上來,你還有很多年使用空間...且薪資便宜.. 01/10 15:33
→ tunababy:你交易回來的薪資跟使用年限就完全有限..怎麼類比? 01/10 15:33
我對他在天使的歷史並不熟,也許將來可以在注意一下,不過重點是我也並不是想說他是 個好GM。
另外關於你說”小聯盟拉到大聯盟”與”交易之後的掏空”:
使用年限與薪資不一樣,表現與成熟度也不一樣,會有特例,不過一般來說有點tradeoff
的感覺,prospect畢竟是prospect,fail的機會相較於proven player來說還是比較大,
遠的不說,天使的Dallas McPherson, Ervin Santana,水手的Jeremy Reed都是很好的例
子,否則洋基紅襪也就不用搶Johan Santana搶的這麼high了,難到Philip Hughes或Clay
Buchholz很差嗎?還是Santana能保證一定不會忽然廢掉?我並不是說小朋友就一定不好
不成熟,我自己也很注意小聯盟的消息;但小朋友也不該被overrated,他們有價值有風
險,一樣是商品,並沒有非得養大自己用才算賺到這回事。
※ 編輯: kiwikg 來自: 140.116.82.189 (01/10 16:33)
推 tunababy:你這樣看農場我覺得已經錯了... 01/10 16:55
→ tunababy:天使這幾年農場起來的更多你怎麼不講? 01/10 16:55
→ tunababy:lacky,k-rod,kotchman,izzy,figgins... 01/10 16:56
→ tunababy:再者prospect也許沒法提供你最好的戰力...但一個好的農場 01/10 16:57
→ tunababy:可以給你平均的戰力..讓你把錢花在如santana之流的人物.. 01/10 16:58
→ tunababy:而且掏空之後最直接的問題就是深度問題...以天使去年來說 01/10 16:59
→ tunababy:完全就是靠深度拿下美西的... 01/10 17:00
推 Anakin:其實Bavasi是個好人 01/10 17:00
→ tunababy:以上這幾點,我看到的水兵應該都沒有... 01/10 17:01
推 Anakin:還有一點,Bavasi的任務是拿冠軍沒錯喔 01/10 17:04
推 Anakin:Howard Lincoln說Bavasi如果不能弄出一支能拿冠軍的隊伍 01/10 17:06
→ Anakin:他的位置就不保,所以才會有水手迷說2007不如不要打這麼好 01/10 17:06
→ Anakin:還記得那時候USS Mariners在熱烈的討論Chris Antonetti繼任 01/10 17:07
→ Anakin:的可能性,然後就傳來Bavasi續留的噩耗 01/10 17:07
推 tunababy:其實第一點的問題怎麼看都在overpay而不在需不需要... 01/10 17:47
→ tunababy:需要是可以接受的,但pay 48M/4years就很爭議了.. 01/10 17:48
→ tunababy:我記得我在水兵簽這個約的時候,我看了一些水兵相關的blog 01/10 17:49
→ tunababy:有一句話讓我印象深刻,水兵的五號,換誰都升級,因為太爛了 01/10 17:50
→ tunababy:所以簽silva乍看之下一定是升級...但看到合約之後.. 01/10 17:51
→ tunababy:怎麼看都不覺得是"好合約"... 01/10 17:52
我說的是prospect有機會成功,有機會失敗,proven player也是,以風險來說,大致上 prospect fail的機會會比proven player來的大。這只是機率問題,所以成功失敗的例子
當然都還是會有,舉個例子,我們往前數五年,看看當年的03年的BA top10:
1. Mark Teixeira, 3b, Rangers
2. Rocco Baldelli, of, Devil Rays
3. Jose Reyes, ss, Mets
4. Joe Mauer, c, Twins
5. Jesse Foppert, rhp, Giants
6. Jose Contreras, rhp, Yankees
7. Brandon Phillips, 2b/ss, Indians
8. Hideki Matsui, of, Yankees
9. Gavin Floyd, rhp, Phillies
10. Francisco Rodriguez, rhp, Angels
02年的:
1. Josh Beckett, rhp, Marlins
2. Mark Prior, rhp, Cubs
3. Hank Blalock, 3b, Rangers
4. Sean Burroughs, 3b, Padres
5. Carlos Pena, 1b, Athletics
6. Juan Cruz, rhp, Cubs
7. Joe Mauer, c, Twins
8. Wilson Betemit, ss, Braves
9. Drew Henson, 3b, Yankees
10. Mark Teixeira, 3b, Rangers
01年:
1. Josh Hamilton, of, Devil Rays
2. Corey Patterson, of, Cubs
3. Josh Beckett, rhp, Marlins
4. Jon Rauch, rhp, White Sox
5. Ben Sheets, rhp, Brewers
6. Sean Burroughs, 3b, Padres
7. C.C. Sabathia, lhp, Indians
8. Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners
9. Ichiro Suzuki, of, Mariners
10. Nick Johnson, 1b, Yankees
我想這邊很多農場達人,我就不班門弄斧給他們評論了,成功失敗的比率跟帶給母隊的利
益,自己可以分析一下。
我說過很多時候球隊的組成會牽涉到時間點,比方Cabrera的大交易。大家都知道
Maybin跟Miller很棒,可是老虎現在是contender,而且部份主力的年紀也不輕,要趁現
在拼一下,所以把很棒,但還需要很多時間長大的小朋友拿去換了一個體型像吹氣球的三
壘手和一個球速掉很多的先發左投,別提他們兩個都很貴,而且有賣像的小朋友幾乎是清
的乾乾淨淨;不過他們買到的不只是這兩個人,同時還有Cabrera, Willis, Ordonez,
Sheffield, Verlander...這些人同隊打拼的機會與底特律球迷的引頸期盼。或許他們會
失敗,不過這是個意義明確的動作。我並不是說prospect不值得養,深度不重要,不過對
GM來說,每個階段有每個階段該做的事。
接著再講回Silva,我想讓你印象深刻的”水兵的五號,換誰都升級,因為太爛了”顯然是誇
張化了,不然水手去年丟上去的就不會一個個炸的這麼漂亮。更別提不簽Silva水手可是連
四號都沒有喔,這種狀況下會發生什麼事呢?除非死心放著讓他爆,不然對不起,你缺人
我還不搶你?你當其他GM是在做慈善事業的嗎?這時候的投手價值就會跟颱風天後的菜價
一樣。這也就是為什麼會看到黑田簽約後Bavasi幾乎一點時間都沒多花就把Silva花大錢簽
下。如果沒簽的話?那你看到的可能是Rays要你拿Clement來換Edwin Jackson之類的,
Bedard的價碼當然也要翻上兩翻,到時候恐怕就不是花錢能解決的問題了。這種狀況下,
相對價值遠比絕對價值來的重要,很難再秤斤秤兩的討價還價。
至於拿冠軍或是Morrow開季會是五號這種太像嘴砲的話就沒什麼可說的了,就算是馬林
魚拼命賣人的時候也會告訴你他們要拿冠軍不要拿最後一名;Morrow如果不是五號那就
缺五號了,那麼買人的價碼又要攀升了,就算我什麼都缺也要告訴大家我什麼都不缺阿,
當然有幾個人會相信又是另一回事了。
--
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美國職棒
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